Green Tractor Talk banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Greetings all

As I get acquainted with the new 1026R, I've notice an occasional shutter or shake when utilizing the 54" blower. For the lack of a better term, this "shake or shutter" appears to be coming from the PTO shafts and shutters the whole tractor when it occurs.

The shutter happens more so when the blower is not loaded with snow or is in the upper position. In my opinion, the PTO angles might be excessive causing this issue. One would think any unnecessary vibrations could lead to cracking of the mid PTO housing. Should I be concerned with this?

Cat
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
162 Posts
During initial running of my tiller and setup, I also found that you must be cautious of the PTO angles "especially" (in this case) with the 3PT raised and the rear PTO engaged. Easily avoided by minimizing those angles with PTO engaged.

As for unloaded vibrations, its possibly related to frequencies and small amounts of drive-line backlash that can and will create vibrations at certain speeds. Again, I found a couple speed frequencies that the tiller set up similar nuances avoidable with experience with the implement and operation.

IMO - Ruling out any obvious drive-line cracks, loose or missing parts, this all sounds quite normal.
 

·
Senior GTT Super Slacker
Joined
·
35,637 Posts
In the meantime I would make certain the U-Joints are well greased. Especially if it is not a constant issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
106 Posts
Greetings all

As I get acquainted with the new 1026R, I've notice an occasional shutter or shake when utilizing the 54" blower. For the lack of a better term, this "shake or shutter" appears to be coming from the PTO shafts and shutters the whole tractor when it occurs.

The shutter happens more so when the blower is not loaded with snow or is in the upper position. In my opinion, the PTO angles might be excessive causing this issue. One would think any unnecessary vibrations could lead to cracking of the mid PTO housing. Should I be concerned with this?

Cat
It is normal that the front pto gets stressed when you raise your snowblower. Increasing the u-joint working angle increases noise and vibration. If this happens when the pto shaft is level, then something is wrong. Check foe excessive play in all associated parts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Thanks All!

I stopped in by the dealer this AM and he stated that when the blower is in the upper position one may get some chattering from the PTO angles. I mentioned the possibility of added a mechanical upper limit and he basically said that would be no problem. He did not mention anything regarding an upper limit kit. :unknown: I also need to pay attention to when this happens as he stated it should only happen when the blower is in the upper position and not while it is down and loaded.

I looked at my build sheet and it includes an implement drive and upstop. Is the purpose of this implement drive and upstop to limit the upper travel of the quick hitch to control the PTO angles?

Cat
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Shuddering is not normal

Assuming the front quick hitch and shaft is the same as that used on the 2305, there should be not be any vibration, let alone "shuddring" at any angle. With the new shafts on the 54", the yokes have to be aligned. Take your thumb and forefingers of each hand and put them together. This is the way the yokes should be positioned on the splines. If there is a slight remaining vibration, one of the yokes might have to be offset one spline either direction, but there should be no vibration. None.

Ken R.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Shuddering is not normal

Assuming the front quick hitch and shaft is the same as that used on the 2305, there should be not be any vibration, let alone "shuddring" at any angle. With the new shafts on the 54", the yokes have to be aligned. Take your thumb and forefingers of each hand and put them together. This is the way the yokes should be positioned on the splines. If there is a slight remaining vibration, one of the yokes might have to be offset one spline either direction, but there should be no vibration. None.

Ken R.
Thanks Ken

I am headed out to the shop to give this whole PTO system a once over. I will take pictures of what I have. I am in agreement with you in that no shuddering, chattering or vibration should be felt. I know what it feels like sitting on the tractor when this happens and cannot imagine the stresses that are being applied to the PTO Housing.

Cat
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
The 1st pic shows the end of the MM PTO shaft and the Shaft on the 54" blower. Based upon what I see, the MM PTO shaft is not in correct alignment with the blower shaft. Would you agree?

The 2nd pic, from the front of the tractor looking down at the PTO support bearings, shows the rear bearing installed on the inside of the bracket rather then on the outside as the installation instructions indicate. I don't know if this is causing an issue, but it is not correct.

The 3rd pic shows how the support bearings are to be installed.

I am going to correct those two issues. I hope that gets rid of the shuttering problem.

Cat
 

Attachments

·
Administrator
Joined
·
20,280 Posts
Looks like you found the problem:good2: U-joints are definitely fussy about alignment.
 

·
Senior GTT Super Slacker
Joined
·
35,637 Posts
WOW! Good for you.
Send the pictures to your dealer. When I discovered the stabilizer cylinders on our 46 BH were installed wrong I sent pictures to the dealer. I'm their bestest buddy now.
Mistakes do happen, can't be avoided.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Shuddering 54" Blower

The 1st pic shows the end of the MM PTO shaft and the Shaft on the 54" blower. Based upon what I see, the MM PTO shaft is not in correct alignment with the blower shaft. Would you agree?

The 2nd pic, from the front of the tractor looking down at the PTO support bearings, shows the rear bearing installed on the inside of the bracket rather then on the outside as the installation instructions indicate. I don't know if this is causing an issue, but it is not correct.

The 3rd pic shows how the support bearings are to be installed.

I am going to correct those two issues. I hope that gets rid of the shuttering problem.

Cat
One of the important shaft alignment techniques is to tighten the bearing receptacles in small incremental steps until the shafts are free of vibration while the blower is run at the slowest engine RPM. Those receptacles can, in combination, have 1/4 inch or more misalignment. This was not in the assembly manual when I purchased my 54" 18 months ago. The mechanic who operated the forklift that put the blower on my trailer went over this with me.

Ken R.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Thanks Again Ken! I did not know that!!

One of the important shaft alignment techniques is to tighten the bearing receptacles in small incremental steps until the shafts are free of vibration while the blower is run at the slowest engine RPM. Those receptacles can, in combination, have 1/4 inch or more misalignment. This was not in the assembly manual when I purchased my 54" 18 months ago. The mechanic who operated the forklift that put the blower on my trailer went over this with me.

Ken R.
Wow! I did not know that...... I made the changes and just tightened the bearing flanges once assembled.....I did not run the unit yet.

So, Let me repeat what I think your saying.
  1. Tighten the bearing flanges just enough that they hold their position.
  2. Run the unit with the MM PTO engaged at base RPM to allow self-alignment of the support bearings.
  3. Stop the PTO.
  4. Further tighten / torque bearing flanges.
  5. Run the unit with the MM PTO engaged and check for any vibrations.
  6. Repeat if necessary.

Cat
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
162 Posts
Assuming the front quick hitch and shaft is the same as that used on the 2305, there should be not be any vibration, let alone "shuddring" at any angle. With the new shafts on the 54", the yokes have to be aligned. Take your thumb and forefingers of each hand and put them together. This is the way the yokes should be positioned on the splines. If there is a slight remaining vibration, one of the yokes might have to be offset one spline either direction, but there should be no vibration. None.

Ken R.
With respect - anything and everything that turns, rotates, etc will always and permanently have frequency ranges that are less than smooth. Suggesting that "none" is creating impossible goals and implant a sense of unease when operating. The aim is reduce but it simply cannot be eliminated! Everyone will get used to what these ranges are on any machine with their individual resident frequencies and will be able to identify when that changes - and that is the goal. Ruling out obvious alignment issues is certainly reasonable but do not be disappointed if the occasional "shutter" or "vibration" occurs at certain speeds.....it's pure physics! Even the family car will have speeds that it just seems to feel more comfortable at.

Keep going the way your going Cat but don't obsess once the alignments and best case scenario is reached on this particular tractor - and be sure to enjoy your new machinery! IMHO.............
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Bearing Recepticles

Wow! I did not know that...... I made the changes and just tightened the bearing flanges once assembled.....I did not run the unit yet.

So, Let me repeat what I think your saying.
  1. Tighten the bearing flanges just enough that they hold their position.
  2. Run the unit with the MM PTO engaged at base RPM to allow self-alignment of the support bearings.
  3. Stop the PTO.
  4. Further tighten / torque bearing flanges.
  5. Run the unit with the MM PTO engaged and check for any vibrations.
  6. Repeat if necessary.

Cat
Yes, that's the process. Referencing the post above this-with equal respect, I'm suggesting that any drive train vibration or shuddering is destructive of your equipment, particularly bearing housings, aluminum casing and seals. I'd go so far as to put a runout gauge at each drive segment to isolate any residual vibration, but the suggestions and your proper relocation of your bearings should easily eliminate any vibration detectible from the seat.

Ken R.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
348 Posts
Here is a thought...........

I noticed in post 9, picture 1, that the drive shaft knuckles on either side of the short shaft through the front carrier are out of time with one another.....

Along with the bearing flange misplacement on the front carrier, I wonder if this would make a difference ?

Good luck
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top