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My loader keeps bleeding off. But when I check my hydro fluid it’s full. My 1025 r is less then a year old and have never unhooked the loader. Air in lines bad seal. I use the dip stick on the back to check fluid level. An it says it’s full. I feel like I’m missing something.
 

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Which portion of FEL leaks down boom or bucket or both? How long does it take to leak down?
 

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I would set the bucket about 2' off the ground, measure it, and record how many inches it drops. I had a severe leak down a year ago on my 1023, turned out to be internal cylinder seals and the SCV. I believe the H120 and 120R on a 1 series have a tolerance of around 3.5" per hour.
 

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1025 loader bleeding down

I had new, less than 30 hour 1025r and it started dropping. Talked to dealer and they told me that the tolerance was 7 inches per hour. I thought that was ridicules, but they came out and measured it. Turns out it dropped 10 inches in 1 hour empty and 10 inches in 45 seconds about half full of gravel. Luckily, I meet the minimum and they replaced both cylinders on the loader. They didn't happen to tell me how sloppy their specs were when I was comparing with Kubota. Very happy with the tractor overall, and since they fixed it, I'm a happy man.
 

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Sometimes a saggy loader can work for you.

One of my horses managed to lift up this 75 pound dutch stall door off its hinge pins and drop it.

IMG-1015.JPG

The vertical lift of the 1025R wasn't enough to lift it high enough with a sling and bucket hooks, so I put in into the bucket. Trying to get the 2 hinges lined up and lower the door onto the pins was impossible with just one person. So I raised it slightly high, shut down and got off the tractor, and was able to guide it into place manually as the loader slowly leaked down.

IMG-1016.JPG
 

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My loader keeps bleeding off. But when I check my hydro fluid it’s full. My 1025 r is less then a year old and have never unhooked the loader. Air in lines bad seal. I use the dip stick on the back to check fluid level. An it says it’s full. I feel like I’m missing something.
It is not likely air in the lines; it is basically a sealed system. (Although there is air in the sump.). If one installs a new cylinder with air in it, the system will purge the air with a few cycles of the cylinder.
If you're not noticing noticeable leaks, then your not losing oil. Hydraulic leaks on cylinders are easy to detect - the oil attracts all manner of dirt and generally creates an unsightly mess.

Almost all cylinders will "leak down" - the manual for my loader gives the acceptable "leak down rates" for differing loads. If it is leaking down faster than the manual states, it is either the packing in the cylinders or the seals in the valve. I recommend starting with some basic diagnostic procedures. If you connect the lift cylinder hoses to the bucket curl outlets and visa-versa and the same cylinders leak down, it is most likely the packing in the cylinders. If the issue moves to the other cylinders, its likely the SCV.

This is almost always an issue with the cylinders - oil leaking past the packing on the piston. The pistons move as the oil slowly leaks past the piston. It can happen if only one is leaking as they are plumbed in pairs and the amount oil on each side of the piston will equalize. It can take some time but one can rebuild them with some basic tools and patience. There's videos on YouTube that demonstrate the process. Or your dealer or local hydraulic repair shop can do it.

If its the SCV, you may be able to rebuild it but that's not something I'm familiar with.

Given the loader has never been unhooked, I'd be really surprised if something has gotten into the system and damaged the SCV.
 

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If 5”/hour is the rate I have a test scenario to play out. I feel mine drops quick


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FYI, check your quick connects. Common point of failure if you're leaking down too much.

If the QD's are at fault, there would be visible leaking. Cylinders and valve can and do leak/bypass internally with no visible signs of leakage.
 

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It's too bad this chart was never updated. The newest 2-series tractor on there is 14 years old. Most of the other tractors listed are way older than that.



I found this chart one day questioning the same thing. Last entry is for h120.




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It's too bad this chart was never updated. The newest 2-series tractor on there is 14 years old. Most of the other tractors listed are way older than that.
That chart is more outdated than Bill Clinton :lol:

I know that you know jgayman, just putting it out there for others who might. When my tractor went in last fall for leak down (1023 w/H120) it was way out, like, 14" in about 30 minutes. It's important for newer tractor owners to understand that there is a tolerance. I believe I was told just shy of 4" was acceptable to JD as far as warranty repairs go, in other words there is a window, so 2.82" is a down the middle figure. I can't find it right now, but I have seen a much more recent leak down chart.
 
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I would like to measure the leak down of my FEL loader bucket curl. Are these measurements taken at the cylinder itself(as opposed to edge of bucket) I presume?
 

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I would like to measure the leak down of my FEL loader bucket curl. Are these measurements taken at the cylinder itself(as opposed to edge of bucket) I presume?
I would think that the JD measurement for drop would be at the buckets edge, I also don't how they would expect you to figure that exactly since the boom will also be dropping at the same time, even if at the acceptable rate.
 
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Of course the numbers are 4.63" on the 1 series bucket drop. Not 4.5" or 4" or 5". Does the dealer use some sort of laser measuring tool to actually measure the drop rate?

I don't even know what the actual measurement is for 4.63", other than it's between 4 5/8" and 4 41/64"........and a tape measure would seem to be the tool which would be used by most tractor owners to check this. You can almost hear someone being told "Sorry, we measured the rate drop on your bucket and it came in at 4 5/8th inches, so therefore it's within the allowable tolerance..."

I have a few questions relative to the drop rate in the hydraulics on these tractors;

1. - The way the rams in the lift and curl cylinders slide up and down past the packing and the seals, etc. in their normal function, is there anyway for a hydraulic cylinder to NEVER have any leak down after it's been cycled a few times? It would seem that just the way the cylinders function mechanically, there is going to be some leak down, correct? So, other than a brand new cylinder that hasn't been cycled, do any of these cylinders ever not leak down?

2. - When the external seals start to leak and oil is visible on the outside of the cylinder, is it the internal pressure of the fluid pushing past the packing when the cylinder cycles which usually causes the seal to leak or is it just the physical wear on the seal from use? Basically, are the seals containing hydraulic pressure or are they more to scrape the oil off the ram as it cycles during use? (The leaking seals are Probably a chicken or the egg sort of issue as to which comes first...)

3. - Is it then a case where the primary difference then between the drop of the bucket and the drop of the rear 3 point is that the rear 3 point's lift mechanisms are all internal inside of the rear hydraulic unit and doesn't use any external cylinders?
 

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Prince hydraulics has a webpage that discusses measuring leak down rate in Cubic Inches/hr. Wondering if that is what the table above is listing? Also, seems odd that a 200x loader(which would have the same cubic inch volume on cylinders regardless of what tractor it's on) acceptable rate is double if mounted on a 4100? Prince actually specifies a pressure gauge to be put in the line so the cylinder can be loaded to 1000 psi of pressure which makes sense so that everyone would be testing with the same variables. Here is the link if anyone is interested.
 

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Of course the numbers are 4.63" on the 1 series bucket drop. Not 4.5" or 4" or 5". Does the dealer use some sort of laser measuring tool to actually measure the drop rate?

I don't even know what the actual measurement is for 4.63", other than it's between 4 5/8" and 4 41/64"........and a tape measure would seem to be the tool which would be used by most tractor owners to check this. You can almost hear someone being told "Sorry, we measured the rate drop on your bucket and it came in at 4 5/8th inches, so therefore it's within the allowable tolerance..."

I have a few questions relative to the drop rate in the hydraulics on these tractors;

1. - The way the rams in the lift and curl cylinders slide up and down past the packing and the seals, etc. in their normal function, is there anyway for a hydraulic cylinder to NEVER have any leak down after it's been cycled a few times? It would seem that just the way the cylinders function mechanically, there is going to be some leak down, correct? So, other than a brand new cylinder that hasn't been cycled, do any of these cylinders ever not leak down?

2. - When the external seals start to leak and oil is visible on the outside of the cylinder, is it the internal pressure of the fluid pushing past the packing when the cylinder cycles which usually causes the seal to leak or is it just the physical wear on the seal from use? Basically, are the seals containing hydraulic pressure or are they more to scrape the oil off the ram as it cycles during use? (The leaking seals are Probably a chicken or the egg sort of issue as to which comes first...)

3. - Is it then a case where the primary difference then between the drop of the bucket and the drop of the rear 3 point is that the rear 3 point's lift mechanisms are all internal inside of the rear hydraulic unit and doesn't use any external cylinders?
I'm by no means an expert, but here's my take on your questions.
Question 0: In my experience, 4.63" is just a round up of 4-5/8" which is just 4.625" ... advice, use a tape measure.

My definition of leak down is sagging of a cylinder due to passage of fluid from the loaded side to somewhere else. That could happen from one side of the piston seal to the other, it could happen from fluid leaking past the valve, or it could be leaking out past the rod seal (if the rod side of the cylinder is loaded), or it could be from a leaky hose or connection. Any leaking of fluid outside of the hydraulic system (leaky hose, connection, piston rod seal) would normally be a visible leak on the outside of the machine, and internal leaks (piston seal, valve spool leak) would probably not be visible as an oil leak.

Question 1: I would say that ALL cylinders have some leak down, even if brand new. There is never a perfect seal between separate moving parts, there will always be some oil leaking past ... the amount will increase with wear. Whether the sealing is rubber/metal or metal/metal, with every cycle there is wear. It just depends on how much fluid is leaking past and how much wear on each cycle. A new cylinder's leak down may be so miniscule that you may not be able to notice it for years, but I'll bet you dollars to donuts that it is leaking at each seal when loaded. Each cycle will wear the sealing surfaces, "better cylinders" may have so little wear that the leak rate may be miniscule (I like that word) and last millions of cycles before leak rate becomes unacceptable.

Question 2: I think the answer is both, external seals contain hydraulic pressure AND wipe/scrape the oil off the rod. Some seals are not meant to be pressure holding because they probably less expensive to make and their usual application is to prevent dust and grit from getting into the system or the pressure seal under it. If you have a seal capable of holding back hydraulic pressure, you are trying to stop the oil from leaking past ... same principle.

Question 3: Rockshaft/3 PT has a piston inside the housing. Basically a single acting cylinder. Any leak down due to oil passing the piston seal just flows into the hydraulic sump as the "rod end" is not encased in a cylinder per se, just open to the sump. Most cylinders on the FEL are double acting cylinders, where you can pressurize the bottom end or the rod end of the cylinder.

Now we can also discuss piston leak down differences between the rod end and the piston end too, and whether the load is compressing or expanding the cylinder. But that is for a different post.

That's just my 2 engineering cents.
 
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