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Discussion Starter #21
Figured I'd pull out my Paslode framing nailer. Not used it since the pole barn was built 15 years ago. NiCd battery was finicky and took a few cycles to get any charge. Found two gas cylinders for it, 2004 expiration date but they still had propellant in them. Shot a few 3-1/2 nails, then refused to cycle and striker rod was jammed. Take apart time... Humm, why is the piston not sitting flat to cylinder. More disassembly. The end of the cylinder has some type of plastic (nylon ?) bushing that has completely disintegrated and the piston rod is bent.

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I'd bet a few hundred to fix (if I could even get parts) which puts a new DeWalt framing nailer into range. Only issue that keeps me from pulling the trigger is the reviews say it has a hard time with 3-1/2 nails, leaving them 1/4 inch proud. The Paslode would sink them without problem, even ring shank. Can't decide so I'll just use 3 inch #10 torx deck screws with impact driver for now.
 

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Propane line. Grrrr, can find it near house where it's not very deep. Maybe 4-6 inches down. Mr. goldfish can't remember what they used. Near tank, it's 12+ inches down and the metal detector just does not see it at all.
Plastic natural gas lines usually have a small wire buried with them that can be activated for toning. 'Any chance that was done for your propane line?
 

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We have 400A service but a 6500W works for us. Like mentioned before it is only to keep the fridges and freezers going. Can also run the furnace and well not to mention the septic lift pump.

When we upgraded the service I looked into a 400A auto transfer switch. Yeah that got cut from the project because $$$$$. Sure it would have been nice but wow they don't give those things away.
 

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you talk about "growing a pair" and digging your trench........and being cold........is your ground frozzen? if so your in for a rough time sir
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Plastic natural gas lines usually have a small wire buried with them that can be activated for toning. 'Any chance that was done for your propane line?
Propane line is 1/2 or 5/8 inch copper line. I can see it on the tank and house side. I remember "finding" it once in hand digging a gutter drainage trench across the driveway near the house. But Mr. Goldfish can't remember the exact location. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #26
you talk about "growing a pair" and digging your trench........and being cold........is your ground frozzen? if so your in for a rough time sir
North Carolina, frostline is about six inches here and so far, winter has been wimpy. It was in the low 50F's during yesterday during the day.
 

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North Carolina, frostline is about six inches here and so far, winter has been wimpy. It was in the low 50F's during yesterday during the day.
Better hurry if our middle of the country weather gets to you....we were 50s....predicting -9 later this week....pretty rough for us mild weather folks
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Locate showed up. After he was done with electric, cable and phone, told him I make it worth it if he could do propane. No problem, tried to hand him a $20 and he said "I can't accept it but if you happen to drop it on the ground..." HAHAHAHA. Google is telling the truth for once. Location was done by clipping a tone generator to the ground line, then sweeping a probe/sensor over ground, for all and for propane, right on the copper pipe.

House side, the 1 inch PVC is so I can figure out the 45 degree sweeps better.

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House to driveway.

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2nd 45 sweep,

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Past propane tank

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Heading to shop

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Red flags mark the tentative location of the trench. Orange is power, orange dots are phone. Red is cable. Planning to shoot between propane and electric/cable lines. Phone is far away. I'll have to tweak it a little but there's really only one place where I have to be careful and that's near the 2nd 45 sweep where the trench will cross the propane line.

Oh yea, anyone know how much bend slop I can get with 2-1/2 inch schedule 80 PVC ? This is maybe 3-4 feet over 125 feet. Worst case if the answer is "not much", will need another 45 degree sweep and straighten the trench run.
 

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Oh yea, anyone know how much bend slop I can get with 2-1/2 inch schedule 80 PVC ?
You may be able to get it around the gradual bend if I'm understanding correctly.

I've "bent" 1-1/2" PVC using an el-cheapo heat gun. 2-1/2" would require more patience. If it wasn't -15°F out I'd get a photo.

When I used to work around industrial facilities, the ECs (electrical contractors) had ovens made for heating and bending PVC conduit.
 

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Oh yea, anyone know how much bend slop I can get with 2-1/2 inch schedule 80 PVC ? This is maybe 3-4 feet over 125 feet. Worst case if the answer is "not much", will need another 45 degree sweep and straighten the trench run.
you should have no issue with 3-4' in 125'.....and like he said above if you need a sharper bend just use a heat gun and warm it up good and hand bend it
 

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Pull a string so you can pull a rope in. I've been having a terrible time with getting fish tapes in lately. Or you can vacuum it in after the fact.
 
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I vacuum pulled the strings after laying 225" of 1 1/4" conduit for a 100A service to the barn. No problem.

I assume that your code requires sch 80 pvc. I used sch 40 pvc in the trench for both the barn run and the 200' run of 3 1/2" for the house service (400A). Power company spec was required for the 400A service since it was their side of the meter, but conduit was not required for anything on my side of the meter.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Electrical contractor said it would be sch 80. As he's dealing with permit, I assume he knows what he's doing. lol. Around here, risers have to be sch 80, I think the in-ground can be sch 40. But I'd have to go digging through local code. They will be laying pipe and pulling wire, how they get the pull line through is their problem. :) I'd vacuum pull a smaller line followed with the actual pull line.

All I'm concerned with is if 2-1/2 inch sch 80 will have enough flex to follow the slight curve. If not, then it will need another 45 and the curve straighten out. Another 45 makes it 270 degrees of bends so less than the 360 limit by code. And they specifically mentioned, "must be less than 360 or they will need to add an in-ground junction box. I'm just the newbie trench contractor for this job. :)

Planning on starting the difficult areas this weekend. I know there are quartz fingers that point up around the pole barn, ran into them auguring the holes. About 18 inches down. When the house foundation was dug 20+ years ago, no issues with quartz or rocks/boulders/etc.
 

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Sorry if these have been answered in earlier posts.....

Are you supplying and installing the conduit in the trench? If so, lay it out on the ground first and see what kind of bend radius you can achieve.

Or are you just digging the trench? If so, could you get an opinion from the EC as to the curve or intentional 45's? They may have the oven to make the required bends if the gradual curve is too much for the Sched 80.

Just some thoughts. Good luck with your project.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Grrrr, it's raining now and forecasted to last at least a week. Looks like I need to build up a poor mans tractor canopy because I'll be digging in the rain. I'll reposition the rake/shovel ROPS clamps to the top, extend out with some rails and cover with plastic. Oh joy...
 

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The pipe will bend enough for what you need I would think. We don't have to use schedule 80 here so obviously that is a bit harder to flex but there should still be no problem doing it.
 
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Discussion Starter #37
Started exploring near meter/combo box, to find the wandering cable line. Started hand digging about two feet right from where electric riser goes into ground. Once down almost a foot, then carefully walked the hole back left towards the electric riser. Found the cable line a few inches left past the riser, about 5 inches down. Expected it on the other side. :) Oh goody, one possible obstruction located, it's out of my way as the junction box riser will be on the other side of the existing electric riser. Will have to hand dig around grounding rod as I'm shooting between it and the electric riser.

Next up is propane line crossing.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Rain let up midday yesterday, forecast is sunny, high 40's/50's for the next two days, rain possible on Monday when the real electrical games begin. So... two day to get the trench done. Let's see what mess I can make. LOL...
 

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Discussion Starter #39
Long leg done, needs some tweaking in one area (too close to cable line, hand dig time) and clean out. Roughly 24 inches deep. Might have to get a pump, we will see in the morning. The water is rain runoff coming off the driveway.

Picture show the classic side dig method to join two trenches. This leg nearest the house was nerve racking, there was only about three feet between cable line and propane line so had to shoot between them.

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Discussion Starter #40
Notes on trenching... As this is my first time trenching was pretty spastic until I got the hang of the backhoe controls. Must resist the tendency to dig too deep... It's so easy to get carried away with "just a little more". LOL. When doing the trench join, I first tried to straddle but did not leave enough room to get sideways and was concerned about dropping a rear tire into the trench, which would have been fun to extract. So went with a side dig.

There's an area where the cable line comes close to where trench needs to go, so dug a little further away figuring I'd just hand dig towards it until I find it. I should have done that when I had the backhoe positioned to help clean out. Now I'll have to side dig once I find it by hand. I was in a mindset to get past the 'oh crap' areas. :)

And another area that needs to go a little deeper. Again, I can side dig it but it would have been much easier before.

Moral,
1) Deal with problem areas when the backhoe is in position to help remove dirt. Going back will always take more time and be more messy.

2) Move backhoe only when you are satisfied with what you have dug out. See 1) :)

I've called a neighbor in to help today, got the short leg to do but worried that I'll not have enough time today to get the trench tweaked, cleaned and finished for Monday. Which Mr. Weatherman says might rain. Oh joy, the trench crosses the main water drainage path in that area. I already cut a tee and took it down about 5 feet to make a pump out area. I smells the need for a HD run for a pump...

Still need to figure out how to go from inside hole (in garage floor) to outside trench without under cutting the gravel under the concrete. The 4 inch pipe goes through the concrete and down to dirt past the gravel base. I should have sunk it deeper. Figure I'd cut in a slot to it, about a foot+ down then try to punch my way through from the top. Got a little 2 inch by 18 inch auger for planting garden bulbs, that might work to get me through, then can shave the sides to 3 inches.

The JD485 backhoe is a real beast. Great reach, about 12 feet. Would have been nice to have a 8 or 6 inch bucket but even the 12 inch was getting clogged with our nice Carolina red clay so a smaller width would have been worse. When side digging, watch out for the outrigger pads when getting close, they are easy to hook. They point a little backwards so with the full 180 degree swing, the bucket path can cross them. Also when side digging to the right, watch out for the foot grip on the outrigger cylinder, you can easily grab/smack it with the bucket.
 
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