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Discussion Starter #1
I'm removing and exterior door and replacing with a wall. Door came out easy, but sill underneath rotted out. I'm wondering if it's because how the siding is installed. Notice in the picture the channel on the bottom.



This is the piece that should be at the top of the wall, they just turned it over. Water runs down the siding and pools in this channel. The is how the siding is installed here because of the deck I'm sure but it's wrong. Can anybody in the construction trade let me know?

Thanks

Tony


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I'm removing and exterior door and replacing with a wall. Door came out easy, but sill underneath rotted out. I'm wondering if it's because how the siding is installed. Notice in the picture the channel on the bottom.

This is the piece that should be at the top of the wall, they just turned it over. Water runs down the siding and pools in this channel. The is how the siding is installed here because of the deck I'm sure but it's wrong. Can anybody in the construction trade let me know?

Thanks

Tony


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There can be lots of reasons an entry door can fail. I would need more pics but generally unless it's metal wrapped, it requires sealing the threshold and keeping the jam areas painted. Bargain entry doors from home improvement stores are ok if maintenence is kept up but will fail if neglected. The other thing that helps greatly is a quality storm door.
 

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Not seen it installed with solid j-channel at the bottom. It will do just that, catch water and if it butts up to a corner or a door jamb that isn't flashed correctly it can cause problems. That bottom channel needs to be slotted at the very least but they make a metal starter strip for vinyl that we use here.
 

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Unless my eyes are way off, the photo he posted is not a full piece of siding so a starter strip wouldn't work. That piece has been cut down. He said this was on a deck so it's possible that at the ends of the deck, the siding extends further down.

I suppose a larger photo of the area, large enough to see the door opening and deck area would be needed to provide a response for what could have been done better.

Jeff




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Unless my eyes are way off, the photo he posted is not a full piece of siding so a starter strip wouldn't work. That piece has been cut down. He said this was on a deck so it's possible that at the ends of the deck, the siding extends further down.

I suppose a larger photo of the area, large enough to see the door opening and deck area would be needed to provide a response for what could have been some better.

Jeff




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This is the reason I wanted more pics :thumbup1gif:
 

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Looks to me like the piece of siding is not full height, if that is true J channel is correct for that location.
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Agree started strip should be used for the very first piece if it is a full height piece of siding, if not J channel .

Door sill can rot out by several different ways , of no caulking ,:dunno:

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As others have said, the siding is installed correctly for this instance. Although there should be an L flashing that sets on top of the deck band board below the deck board & extend up in behind the siding.

You did not picture the door, but most issues with rotting below the door sill is because the door sill was not flashed or caulked correctly.
 

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Dieselshadow had a post about his replacement door over a deck and if I'm not mistaken it rotted his sill and was caused by insufficient caulking, flashing, etc.

Another cause for sill rot is when decks are installed flush with the bottom of the door sill and incorrect seals are used.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Thanks for the replies and I should have been a little more specific but was in a hurry. Having a 3 foot wide by 80" hole in ones house will do that. Just got in from installing the siding. So to answer the questions.

I am removing the door and not replacing it. Instead filling in the space with a wall. The door actually opens into the living room from the outside. No idea why a door was put there.

No ones eyes need checked, the bottom piece of siding is a little less than half the full height. The problem is that it's the top half of a full piece so no way to lock anything to it.

J channel would make sense but what you see at the bottom isn't J channel. It's the piece that goes at the very top of a wall that you lock the last piece into, no nails. They just turned it upside down, nailed it on and pushed the siding into it.

Flashing?? Yeah, was zero, nada, nill. The door was set in caulk and that was it.

Tomorrow I'm going to get the insulation installed and the piece of drywall cut to fit. Then get tape and a coat of mud on it. Then I'll see about adjusting the siding. I was thinking a flat piece of flashing that went up under the siding piece and over the edge of wall or whatever it is under the deck to direct the water away. J channel with some holes in it for drainage might help too.


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I wasn't 100% sure what I was looking at. We use ice and water shield under all entry doors and L flash everything at deck level. I'm also not sure why the builder would flush the deck to the opening unless the opening was an afterthought. Most things in exterior construction are designed in layers top to bottom with the idea being to divert water away from wood and insulation instead of allowing it an entry point. Caulking is considered a last measure and used miminally if everything else is correct. In your case, I see nothing wrong with the pic you showed other than the lack of a flash to divert the cascading water away from under the siding and opening but im also not sure how your ledger board is attached and if your deck is running water away from the house. Believe it or not, a lot of water can sit on a deck during a heavy rain and if snow is allowed to accumulate and melt. Without proper flashing, the water can and will get to the sheeting and beyond. I did a repair similar to your situation where the water was running behind the ledger under the siding, in this case cedar, and into an interior wall and out the electrical service panel because of no flashing and the builder running the deck toward the house instead of the other way around. To make things more interesting, it was a second story deck and the floor joists were rotted behind the ledger and I found this damage removing a 6' patio door. Luckily, it wasn't much of a surprise.
 

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The piece they used at the bottom is called undersill trim. The advantage of using undersill trim is that it does not allow all of the water that runs down the siding to go into the molding.

The disadvantage of using undersill trim is that it pulls the edge of the siding back to the wall, instead of allowing the siding to keep it's natural form.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I haven't thought what I'm going to yet. I've run through everything in my head from just put back what was there to remove deck boards so I can get the full picture. The deck boards were going to be replaced next year but wasn't planning on tearing them up now.

At this point I'm thinking of fabricating some sort of drip cap.


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I haven't thought what I'm going to yet. I've run through everything in my head from just put back what was there to remove deck boards so I can get the full picture. The deck boards were going to be replaced next year but wasn't planning on tearing them up now.

At this point I'm thinking of fabricating some sort of drip cap.


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Vinyl siding isn't difficult to remove at all. The million dollar question is what you will find benith. If this will be your home for years to come, use a siding zip tool available at any home improvement store and unzip the second row first. After that you can pull the nails on the first and you can simply lift the bottom row out and have a look. Hopefully they at least used house wrap, (Tyvek) but from your posts, I'd guess no. Vinyl siding does a pretty good job on its own, but more layers always helps. You can then remove the first row of deck, closest to the house and install both rows of flashing if everything looks good and reinstall your deck board and siding. I'd like to think a builder didn't do this but I've seen some horrid $h!t builders do to cut corners even though they know better.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Thanks to everybody for the replies. What I plan to do is pull up the 15 deck boards I need (which is almost half of them) and flash everything correctly. I'm one of those do it right people. Their was no house wrap on the area where the door was so I doubt there is any flashing anywhere. The deck was going to be overhauled next spring so this way the screws should come out easier next year.

Here's a couple pictures showing the area. Excuse the mess, I was installing siding in the dark until 8:30 last night.



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I wonder if it's the level of the deck in relation to the threshold that may have caused the problem. I'm not a pro, but decks that I have built, I always have a 6-7" step down to keep
any snow/rain from running under the door. Just a thought. Good luck with your project.
 
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