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Quick question I had for people here that might know. We are building a new attached garage as documented here.

We are working out the details on the exterior lighting. What we want to do is on each corner of the garage doors and the access door is have a can installed in the Soffit. I think the code states that it needs to be an airtight IC rated can. I get that some areas have different codes for this but I think that is what I need to look for right?

Thinking something along the lines of this.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-6-in-Aluminum-Recessed-IC-New-Construction-Airtight-Housing-6-Pack-CAT7ICATA-6PK/202256649

We do still need to sort out what we are doing for a light but it will most likely be LED and something along the lines of this.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Halo-LT-5-in-and-6-in-White-Integrated-LED-Recessed-Ceiling-Light-Retrofit-Trim-at-5000K-Daylight-LT560WH6950R/304216252?MERCH=REC-_-PIPHorizontal3_rr-_-304142648-_-304216252-_-N
 

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in our area ...the only code issues are #1 it has to be a exterior ul rated fixture...and #2 cant bleed light over a property line

that being said we have to give heavy consideration to bugs..wasps...condensation...air filtration.. when choosing a fixture
 

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On an exterior fixture you will need an exterior rated fixture. Or at the very least one that is rated for damp locations.

Are you looking for the recessed can look so you don't see the fixture or just looking for lights in the corners and seeing the fixture isn't a big deal.

Here are a couple flush mount exterior led down lights.
13W Ultra Thin LED Downlight - TCP DDR40150 | 1000Bulbs.com

2.25 aspectLED
 

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Discussion Starter #4
in our area ...the only code issues are #1 it has to be a exterior ul rated fixture...and #2 cant bleed light over a property line

that being said we have to give heavy consideration to bugs..wasps...condensation...air filtration.. when choosing a fixture
We have a large metal halide light not too far from where these soffit lights are going. Really that will be providing 90% of the light in the area. I might even tie the soffit lights to the garage door opener that they are closest to or via motion. The idea is to illuminate the walls on either side of the opening to aid in backing into a garage stall. As far as the one above the access door, it is a code requirement. Even though there is plenty of light from the fixture on the other building, it doesn't count.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
On an exterior fixture you will need an exterior rated fixture. Or at the very least one that is rated for damp locations.

Are you looking for the recessed can look so you don't see the fixture or just looking for lights in the corners and seeing the fixture isn't a big deal.

Here are a couple flush mount exterior led down lights.
13W Ultra Thin LED Downlight - TCP DDR40150 | 1000Bulbs.com

2.25 aspectLED
We are looking for the recessed can look. That is why I was thinking I would be fine with a IC rated can and a water tite LED "bulb" basically looking at what would be acceptable for a shower. What throws me off is I think code in most areas calls a soffit a "damp area" and I am not sure if IC meets the requirements for that.
 

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They have covers for Recessed Can Lights the say right on the back and meet code suitable for wet locations. Required over a bath tub and shower. They are gasketed and fit good to the sheet rock. New code may require screws and no glass they keep changing things over the years. Wet and Damp are to different conditions of water. Water splashed up against the cover is what they are stopping not just being in a damp location. Like Rain Proof, Water Proof, Weather Proof. Submergible and how deep, Explosion Proof, Vapor Proof the list is long and each has a different code requirement for use.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
They have covers for Recessed Can Lights the say right on the back and meet code suitable for wet locations. Required over a bath tub and shower. They are gasketed and fit good to the sheet rock. New code may require screws and no glass they keep changing things over the years. Wet and Damp are to different conditions of water. Water splashed up against the cover is what they are stopping not just being in a damp location. Like Rain Proof, Water Proof, Weather Proof. Submergible and how deep, Explosion Proof, Vapor Proof the list is long and each has a different code requirement for use.
Yeah the bulbs I listed before:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Halo-LT-5-in-and-6-in-White-Integrated-LED-Recessed-Ceiling-Light-Retrofit-Trim-at-5000K-Daylight-LT560WH6950R/304216252?MERCH=REC-_-PIPHorizontal3_rr-_-304142648-_-304216252-_-N

state the following:

  • Wet rated, can be used outdoors or as a shower light
Which is why I think I am fine that route but I am not sure about the can.
 

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Quick question I had for people here that might know. We are building a new attached garage as documented here.

We are working out the details on the exterior lighting. What we want to do is on each corner of the garage doors and the access door is have a can installed in the Soffit. I think the code states that it needs to be an airtight IC rated can. I get that some areas have different codes for this but I think that is what I need to look for right?

Thinking something along the lines of this.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-6-in-Aluminum-Recessed-IC-New-Construction-Airtight-Housing-6-Pack-CAT7ICATA-6PK/202256649

We do still need to sort out what we are doing for a light but it will most likely be LED and something along the lines of this.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Halo-LT-5-in-and-6-in-White-Integrated-LED-Recessed-Ceiling-Light-Retrofit-Trim-at-5000K-Daylight-LT560WH6950R/304216252?MERCH=REC-_-PIPHorizontal3_rr-_-304142648-_-304216252-_-N
The can light trim would need to be damp location. The can itself doesn't matter. IC rating is for Insulation Contact rated. So if there is insulation that is being blown over it or batt insulation in direct contact with the can then you need a IC rated can. If I remember correctly ( been a long time since I look at the code for this)if the insulation is more than 3" away from the can it doesn't need an IC rating.
 

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The can light trim would need to be damp location. The can itself doesn't matter. IC rating is for Insulation Contact rated. So if there is insulation that is being blown over it or batt insulation in direct contact with the can then you need a IC rated can. If I remember correctly ( been a long time since I look at the code for this)if the insulation is more than 3" away from the can it doesn't need an IC rating.
You are correct Big. Non-IC, insulation no closer than 3", including a wiring compartment that is part of the fixture. IC can have direct contact with insulation.


And yes Sennister, a soffit is typically considered a damp location, not wet, as normally it's not subjected to saturation with water or liquids.
 

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As much as I like recessed cans I wouldn't actually install one these days. The self contained pop in LED fixtures that from the outside look exactly like a recessed can are what I would be installing.

They are generally fully sealed and so you own't have to worry about bugs or water getting into them.
They are easier to install.
Generally very compact and easy to fit into tight locations.
They are also very inexpensive when you compare them to buying a recessed housing, plus a trim, and a lightbulb. One of the ones I linked to cost $13 for the entire fixture. Just the damp location sealed trim piece a lone will cost that much.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
The bug issue mentioned above should be a big consideration, the "damp location" covers on a regular can will just hold them in over time.

If it was me, I'd look at some sort of flush mount LED like these:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-6-in-J-Box-12-Watt-Dimmable-White-Integrated-LED-Round-Flat-Panel-Ceiling-Flush-Mount-Light-with-Color-Changing-CCT-74206-HD/301757625
As much as I like recessed cans I wouldn't actually install one these days. The self contained pop in LED fixtures that from the outside look exactly like a recessed can are what I would be installing.

They are generally fully sealed and so you own't have to worry about bugs or water getting into them.
They are easier to install.
Generally very compact and easy to fit into tight locations.
They are also very inexpensive when you compare them to buying a recessed housing, plus a trim, and a lightbulb. One of the ones I linked to cost $13 for the entire fixture. Just the damp location sealed trim piece a lone will cost that much.
Here are a few things to consider. This is new construction and soffits are not in place yet. So as far as ease of install now is the time to do cans.

My #1 concern about a clip in LED solution for these soffit lights that just go through the soffit is replacement as they fail. Cans have been around for years and there are millions of homes out there that use them. There will always be a lighting solution for this. I am sure that with the clip in style as long as I go with a standard size opening I should be able to find something to stick in there but then I am going to face more challenges in matching them. This is a big reason I am not going with the very popular LED strip lights for lighting in the new garage. I am installing T8 florescent fixtures that are wired for line voltage and T8 LED bulbs in them. In the pole barn I went with LED strip lights. While I like them in general, once they start failing it is going to be a huge pain to deal with them because they are all linked together and I doubt I will be able to find them again.

Cost really isn't a factor in this. Sure those surface mount LEDs are $13 each. Well a can is $6 and bulb still $13 so it isn't like we are talking a huge difference. It is only 4 lights at the garage doors and 5 on the back of the garage. With a 10/12 pitch and 2' overhangs there is all kinds of room for the cans. In the scope of the construction project this is .000001% of the cost.

Like with the T8 fixtures. I was pricing out some stuff and they were trying to talk me into strip lights again. Oh we sell a ton of these and they are the best things ever. Well they are $70 each for a single bulb style. I can go T8 fixture for $30-40 and $10 in bulbs. So $40-50 and I had double the light output and they are easier to replace when the bulb fails.

I keep talking about these bulb failures and before anyone comments that they are rated for 50,000 hrs or 50 years of use so I should never have to replace them. Yeah right... When I had CFLs they would last me 1-2 years. Now I only buy LEDs and they are failing on me. We did a bathroom remodel 3 or 4 years ago and a couple have gone out in there already. So it doesn't matter what I put up there I will expect it to fail. I am not getting any younger and we have no intention to move anytime soon from this property. I don't want to have to hire an electrician to come and swap out some hard wired surface mount bulb. That is a big reason why I am hesitant to go with a lot of the options such as low voltage and surface mount or clip in lighting. Some of those solutions are great if I were looking at remodel work. This is all new construction.

I appreciate the ideas though. Really I do.
 

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Here are a couple flush mount exterior led down lights.
13W Ultra Thin LED Downlight - TCP DDR40150 | 1000Bulbs.com
I don't want to hijack this thread but you two just spent some of my money. Thank you.:thumbup1gif:
 

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You've got your reasons and they make sense enough.

When I built 5 years ago I made a point to have every light in the house be LED. I installed something like 30 recessed cans and put LED bulbs in all of them. About 2 years ago Home depot put the LED replacement trims on clearance for like 7 dollars each. They are the kind that has a pig tail that screws into the bulb socket and replaces the can trim. Sort of a couple of the original screw in bulbs I've had very good luck with the LED lights lasting a very long time. Unlike CFL of florescent lights they don't loose significant lumen output as they age.

I do all my own wiring and electrical work so if a fixture fails for some reason it's nothing for me to just replace them as needed. If I were building today I wouldn't bother with a single recessed can but that's me. From my perspective in industrial settings I see the same thing. All new construction is LED everything no questions asked. Facilities are paying big money to retrofit buildings with all LED lighting. From a business perspective skipping one bulb change out cycle and all the labor and cost involved in changing lights pays for the new LED fixtures.

Obviously as a homeowner your perspective is not going to be the same. The garage looks great by the way. Very nicely laid out and built.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
You've got your reasons and they make sense enough.

When I built 5 years ago I made a point to have every light in the house be LED. I installed something like 30 recessed cans and put LED bulbs in all of them. About 2 years ago Home depot put the LED replacement trims on clearance for like 7 dollars each. They are the kind that has a pig tail that screws into the bulb socket and replaces the can trim. Sort of a couple of the original screw in bulbs I've had very good luck with the LED lights lasting a very long time. Unlike CFL of florescent lights they don't loose significant lumen output as they age.

I do all my own wiring and electrical work so if a fixture fails for some reason it's nothing for me to just replace them as needed. If I were building today I wouldn't bother with a single recessed can but that's me. From my perspective in industrial settings I see the same thing. All new construction is LED everything no questions asked. Facilities are paying big money to retrofit buildings with all LED lighting. From a business perspective skipping one bulb change out cycle and all the labor and cost involved in changing lights pays for the new LED fixtures.

Obviously as a homeowner your perspective is not going to be the same. The garage looks great by the way. Very nicely laid out and built.
When we did the bathroom remodel we used the same LEDs that screw into the socket in the can and clip in with the spring as a replacement trip. We also replaced all the lights in cans in the basement with these as well. I seem to get a few years out of them before they start crapping out. Most of the ones I have are Feit in the first go round so if anyone is in the market for them I would avoid that brand. As they fail I have been replacing them with Phillips ones. I caught a sale like you and stocked up on a bunch. They are more expensive and none have failed but they also have only been up there for about 6 months at the longest.

I also do all my own electrical. In the case of the garage build. I am having them do just enough electrical to get the permits closed out for the most part. I think he is putting in something like 6 outlets. I am also having him do the lights. I am ordering the T8 fixtures and I will rewire them on the ground before he mounts them. This is because I will have the contractor sheetrock the ceiling and the wall where the garage door openers are and the firewall between the house and garage. It is too hard to go back and install the lighting after that so it makes sense to have them do that much. I am not paying them $300 an outlet or whatever they charge for a 50A 240V socket. They will leave the other two walls open as that is where work benches and stuff will go so I will do all that wiring later. It largely comes down to time as part of it. I want to get the project far enough to satisfy the inspectors and get them out of here. Not that I am doing anything not to code, just I don't have time to sit around waiting on them and why pay the inflated prices for something I know how to do. The other issue that I try to stay aware of is I am a disabled vet and have balance issues. I still go up on ladders but I take my time and there are days that it is worst than others so there are simply times where I can't do the work anymore. I may know how to do it, it is just that I shouldn't. That is part of why some of the things are being done the way they are. Sure going up and replacing a fixture that is hardwired is no big deal if I can get to it and not fall off the ladder in the process. Like I said. I am not getting any younger.
 

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Most of the ones I have are Feit in the first go round so if anyone is in the market for them I would avoid that brand. As they fail I have been replacing them with Phillips ones.
Have seen and heard same thing about Feit bulbs, not lasting.

And usually when an LED goes out, it isn't the diodes dying, it is the electronics that power them that fails.
 

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The bug issue mentioned above should be a big consideration, the "damp location" covers on a regular can will just hold them in over time.

If it was me, I'd look at some sort of flush mount LED like these:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-6-in-J-Box-12-Watt-Dimmable-White-Integrated-LED-Round-Flat-Panel-Ceiling-Flush-Mount-Light-with-Color-Changing-CCT-74206-HD/301757625
Agreed Kenny, a damp location fixture isn’t sealed. Being truly big resistant means being sealed, and sealed well-most likely “wet” location grade or better.
 

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We retrofitted all of our cans with new sealed LEDs and they have been awesome. I have not changed out my soffits yet but will I have to rent a tow behind lift to get to all of them. I also might have to paint the rings to match my soffits.

They have a foam seal on the top edge and when snapped up in the can nothing is getting around or through them. My contractor picked them out. They are Halo selectable we run them all at the mid setting.

B5405D21-5111-4F1D-B8D5-C3FDCE38487B.jpeg
 

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Exterior rated a must

Your electrician is the best person to answer your question as they work in your area so know the local building code.
But it will have to be an exterior rated can in anycase. The bulb doesn't matter so much.
Being a fully recessed light, your duty to not allow light to leave your boundry is lowered as the fitting will automatically be hooded.
Most people never think about their light leaving their property.
These new LED bulds are major offenders of this world-wide building regulation (well in developed countries, anyway).
These bulbs are very bright but don't cast as much light locally (within say 30m) as their brightness would indicate.
However, a person or animal 100s of metres or yards away, (even miles away) can almost be blinded by that same light shining in their eyes.
They must all be hooded so the bulb can't be seen at average eye level outside your boundary.
 

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If I come across my electrician on the job I’ll pick his brain. I’ve done a lot of new construction soffit. And I’ve never had 6” cans like you posted originally. It’s always been around 4”. They were always some type of can like you posted just smaller. So you are on the right path. Insulation isn’t by your soffit so you shouldn’t have to worry about that. The soffit is there to help let the house breathe.

I agree with above. Just ask your electrician. As codes are different in different places.
 
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