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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Bush hogging witj my 3033r, cutter has a shear bolt that never shesrs.

But I stalled the pto a few times cutting trees too big, or at the limit.

Figured id kill the motor first, what am i slipping inside the tractor?
 

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PTO clutch. You probably need to check your hydraulic pressure.
 

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I know it's not the same, but I have a Kioti CK2610. When I asked about a rotary cutter with slip clutch vs shear bolt he told me that he wouldn't be surprised if the tractor stalled before the shear bolt broke. I have yet to use a rotary cutter so not sure if it will or won't shear the bolt.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
are you certain the PTO stalled?... or did you just experince the bush hog stopping?... you mentioned a shear bolt - but do you also have a slip clutch by chance?

Yep. No clutch. Pto visibly stalled, engine running, picked cutter up, pto started again without me hitting the switch.
 

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I'd change shear bolt to the softest grade you can find.
Bolt will be about 4$

Your pto clutch/brake set up will be close to a grand +- installed if you fry that.
 

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Its new. Should it not kill the motor?
yes - it should.

my 2305 is a 2007year and my PTO will stall my engine every time (if I run my tiller for example), if I overload it.... the internal clutch should never slip. It's only there to ensure graceful PTO engagement... it's not there for torque overload protection.

is the engine straining when this happens?.... or does it stall at "hardly any load"?

So if it's slipping, and the tractor is new = warranty
 

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I would be changing that shear bolt to a softer grade , or buy a slip clutch.
 
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Change out the shear bolt.

I've never stalled the PTO on my 4500. Snapped plenty of shear bolts. Dug 48, 24 inch holes, four foot deep (pole barn now shop). Hit quartz fingers sticking up on 21 of the holes, bang goes the shear bolt on the 3ph-auger. Some took two shear bolts. Do the math :) I have a very large stock now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Spoke to dealer, he wants to put it on the dyno to check out. Will be $250 if nothing wrong.

Any chance I can get them to turn it up some on the dyno? Is fuel on these all electronic now?
 

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He wants to charge you if there is nothing wrong?.... what is the definition of "wrong".... is the PTO supposed to stop under load, or not?... What happens once it stops?... can it stay in that "slipping state" forever?... is it designed for that?... or will keeping in that state for more than 2 seconds going to destroy the clutch?.... my argument is that it is "NOT" designed for this...
The PTO is not supposed to stop. Period. The engine should be stalled before the PTO clutch starts to slip. The Clutch is NOT a torque-limiter. It is an engagement-device. Once it's engaged, it should be equivalent to a "hard connection" between the engine and the PTO shaft.

So this is a YES/NO question...does it slip before the engine stalls...or not.....
not some variable answer "well - you can get 18HP (for example) at the PTO before it starts to slip, therefore everything is OK".

did they hook up a mower or some other heavy load implement like a tiller to it, and actually try it?...
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
He wants to charge you if there is nothing wrong?.... what is the definition of "wrong".... is the PTO supposed to stop under load, or not?... What happens once it stops?... can it stay in that "slipping state" forever?... is it designed for that?... or will keeping in that state for more than 2 seconds going to destroy the clutch?.... my argument is that it is "NOT" designed for this...
The PTO is not supposed to stop. Period. The engine should be stalled before the PTO clutch starts to slip. The Clutch is NOT a torque-limiter. It is an engagement-device. Once it's engaged, it should be equivalent to a "hard connection" between the engine and the PTO shaft.

So this is a YES/NO question...does it slip before the engine stalls...or not.....
not some variable answer "well - you can get 18HP (for example) at the PTO before it starts to slip, therefore everything is OK".

did they hook up a mower or some other heavy load implement like a tiller to it, and actually try it?...


I agree with everything you are saying. I just dont know thier process. I've never had a pto slip on a tractor, it should kill the motor in my mind.

Didnt know if these were different for some reason.

I haven't taken it down there yet.
 

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Interesting situation. I would first try to determine the PTO clutch purpose. If it is in fact, just for engagement and should be a "lock up" connection once engaged, then it sounds like you have an issue. I don't know for fact, but I do believe it should effectively "lock" the connection. I have a 3039R but have never used to PTO on it (hopefully will in the next couple weeks). My gut feeling is the clutch should not slip like that, it should stall the engine. I have an older 2350, it is mid 80s era and has a mechanical PTO clutch, not electric like the 3039R. I have stalled, or nearly stalled the engine on the 2350 several times with a cutter behind it and never noticed any slipping of the clutch. Based on that experience I think you should have your tractor looked at. Not that it is relevant here, but I try to engage/disengage at idle RPMs which should limit stress on the clutch.

Maybe Ken or one of the other guys on here that has hands on experience with the workings of a PTO clutch will jump in with their take on it.

I agree with the other posts here that a shear bolt change should also be done. What cutter are you using? Assuming it came from the same dealer as the tractor it should be matched to the tractor and the slipping should not happen. If the cutter is larger than the tractor "should" handle, maybe that is part of the problem. Something like an 8' cutter behind a 3033R would create energy the clutch can't handle, but still seems like the engine should stall before a slip occurs...

Either way, that is a $250 gamble I would take!
 
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Yea - before taking it to them, i would ask them what kind of dyno test are they going to do?.... what are they testing for?.... what is the pass/fail criteria?....
then ask them is the PTO clutch a torque limiting device?... or an engagement device?... if torque-limiting, can it run in torque-limiting mode indefinitely?... or if limited time - what is that time?... and of course: all of this better be in the manual!!! if it is not in the manual, then where are the specifications and user instructions of how to use of this torque-limiting-device correctly???
if it's not torque limiting, then should it stall the engine under max load?... - just like every other PTO on every other tractor in the world - including other JD tractors. So is the dyno test intended to run the PTO all the way to "engine stall"?.... is that the pas/fail for the dyno test?...

etc etc
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Interesting situation. I would first try to determine the PTO clutch purpose. If it is in fact, just for engagement and should be a "lock up" connection once engaged, then it sounds like you have an issue. I don't know for fact, but I do believe it should effectively "lock" the connection. I have a 3039R but have never used to PTO on it (hopefully will in the next couple weeks). My gut feeling is the clutch should not slip like that, it should stall the engine. I have an older 2350, it is mid 80s era and has a mechanical PTO clutch, not electric like the 3039R. I have stalled, or nearly stalled the engine on the 2350 several times with a cutter behind it and never noticed any slipping of the clutch. Based on that experience I think you should have your tractor looked at. Not that it is relevant here, but I try to engage/disengage at idle RPMs which should limit stress on the clutch.

Maybe Ken or one of the other guys on here that has hands on experience with the workings of a PTO clutch will jump in with their take on it.

I agree with the other posts here that a shear bolt change should also be done. What cutter are you using? Assuming it came from the same dealer as the tractor it should be matched to the tractor and the slipping should not happen. If the cutter is larger than the tractor "should" handle, maybe that is part of the problem. Something like an 8' cutter behind a 3033R would create energy the clutch can't handle, but still seems like the engine should stall before a slip occurs...

Either way, that is a $250 gamble I would take!

It is a $300 pos I bought on the side of the road. No clutch. 5ft. Hauwse brand?

I stalled it out cutting trees high and dropping over them wide open. Mabey 2" but probably 4" when the pto quit spinning. Shear bolt is grade 5, 1/2".

Yes too big of brush to cut, but it was doing it. I should probably leave it in the ditch and go buy a better one with a clutch.
 

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It is a $300 pos I bought on the side of the road. No clutch. 5ft. Hauwse brand?

I stalled it out cutting trees high and dropping over them wide open. Mabey 2" but probably 4" when the pto quit spinning. Shear bolt is grade 5, 1/2".

Yes too big of brush to cut, but it was doing it. I should probably leave it in the ditch and go buy a better one with a clutch.
:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: thats pretty rough on the equipment. But I cant say I've never done it!

I am not sold on the PTO clutches 100%, they dont like weather, if you park your stuff outside they will freeze up. If I were in your shoes, I would probably have the service department look at the tractor. If everything checks out, maybe be a little nicer to it next time you run it. I think a 3033R should handle a 5' cutter just fine.
 
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It is a $300 pos I bought on the side of the road. No clutch. 5ft. Hauwse brand?

I stalled it out cutting trees high and dropping over them wide open. Mabey 2" but probably 4" when the pto quit spinning. Shear bolt is grade 5, 1/2".

Yes too big of brush to cut, but it was doing it. I should probably leave it in the ditch and go buy a better one with a clutch.
Wow, 4"? That's a lot to ask of it. It should still probably stall the engine before it slips though. Hope you get it ironed out
 
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