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Discussion Starter #1
Current project: upgrade electric service.

This was the old, hated Federal Pacific panel
Electric panel old.jpg
These are the new panels at the pole. Hard to see, but hubby dug trench last fall with the 1025r.
Electric panels at pole.jpg
More of the trench
Electric trench to pole.jpg
I had to dig the 10 ft at the house through almost solid limestone with a demo hammer. Took me 2 weeks.
Electric trench at house.jpg
New panels at the house
Electric panels at house.jpg

I AM excited to have this done.:yahoo:
 

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I guess I don't understand. :unknown: I see this a very much needed upgrade, not something that got out of hand. :think:

BTW, it looks like a nice job. I'm assuming you're burying all of the conduit?
 

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Nice looking upgrade.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
It's the house that got out of hand, not the service upgrade.

We designed the house originally to be built in 3 sections. First section (Phase 1) was completed in 1976 by a contractor; second section (Phase 2) was built several years later by just hubby & myself except for the masonry; third section (Phase 3) was only framed out by a crew in 1989. Phase 3 had a mod to the original plan. Since the attic in Phase 1 was a bit too short to stand up in, we decided to raise the roof line. Well, then it was almost enough to make a room. So hubby thought that if we used a vaulted ceiling, he could shoot baskets upstairs. So I got on a ladder and measured the arc as he shot baskets. Had scissor trusses built to suit. Suddenly Phase 3 became 2 story. See what I mean? Out of Hand.

I'm currently working on wiring & insulating the Upstairs of Phase 3, so thought this thread might be fun.

Yes, the conduit will be buried after some other "stuff" is added to the trench.
 

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Nice looking upgrade.
Federal Pacific (stab/lock breakers) actually lost thier UL listing at a certain point. They had a lot of problems with the breaker to buss connection becoming resistive, hence heat, hence more resistance and eventually failure in terms of burning open or fire. I prefer SquareD-TTL not the HO line. The HO line is sold in box stores along with the lower line of levitone, delta and kholer in plumbing. They all have two ,"lines". A lot of guys don't know it but what you get in a real trade supply house in electrical or plumbing is a complete different quality than Home Depot/lowes even though it has the same name.

Nice job on the new installation
 

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Federal Pacific (stab/lock breakers) actually lost thier UL listing at a certain point. They had a lot of problems with the breaker to buss connection becoming resistive, hence heat, hence more resistance and eventually failure in terms of burning open or fire. I prefer SquareD-TTL not the HO line. The HO line is sold in box stores along with the lower line of levitone, delta and kholer in plumbing. They all have two ,"lines". A lot of guys don't know it but what you get in a real trade supply house in electrical or plumbing is a complete different quality than Home Depot/lowes even though it has the same name.

Nice job on the new installation
Very true that is why I always go to a local electrical or plumbing supply dealer instead of the big box stores.

Plus the sales clerk brings your order to you instead of you looking all over the store for one item that should have been in the plumbing or electrical dept.
 

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Looking good. Time to fix doors yet? :laugh:
 

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Discussion Starter #8
The new panels are all SquareD HO and all that great outside work was done by an electrician. I did ask about the TTL line before we started, but he felt the HO line was more than adequate for us. We also have 2 new interior SquareD subpanels that we put in and routed the "service" wires (from the outside panels), but had him make the actual connections. We wired Phase 2 and feel comfortable with that level of work. Did a bunch of the attic & inside work for this upgrade, but talked to the electrician about anything I was even slightly unsure of and had him inspect my new 220 attic air handler disconnect in Phase 1. I started the project with a spreadsheet of load, wire and breaker sizes that he checked. What a treasure! He even got a lot of our DIY supplies at his supply house. But I was already quite familiar with those places myself.

Time to fix doors yet?
Got the deadbolt in and working, but had to switch gears once the switchover date was set. Guess what I have on the schedule tomorrow (besides getting the Buick to the mechanic)? :laugh:
 

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Good job going on! :bigthumb:
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Project: relocate plumbing for bar & kitchen/dining sinks

Design for the kitchen/dining was changed a bit during framing from what was planned when the slab was poured. Nothing too major though. However changing from the originally planned circular stairs on one end of the FR to "open" stairs on the other end has presented a plumbing problem. The originally planned bar was located in what is now a landing for the stairs. So I need to move the plumbing. I don't see major problems with the drain side, but I'm not firm about the vent stack side.

Here's the layout:

FR-Kit-Dining layout.jpg
Seen from the FR:

01 bar from FR edit.jpg

Seen from the kitchen (backside of bar) Notice all the headers. Originally there was going to be a pass-through here.
02 bar wall from kit edit.jpg

Here's the existing plumbing as seen from the kitchen (backside of bar)
03 bar from kit.jpg

Obviously I'm going to have to cut the elbow and route it right (from this view) for the bar sink. What I'm not sure about is the left end where the bar was in the orig design. Use the existing venting?
04 bar plumbing from kit edit.jpg
Viewed from the other side (FR/bar)
05 bar plumbing from FR edit.jpg

Or create a new vertical vent
06 bar wall from kit edit.jpg

Here's the existing venting: top pic is vent exit to roof in dining; next pic is across kitchen with dining on left and FR (bar) on right.
09 vent dining edit.jpg 08 vent across kit (bar to dining).jpg

I am going to have to move the venting for the back-to-back dining/kitchen sinks to the kitchen side of the studs to allow depth for a fridge in the dining room. May relocate drain for outdoor kitchen sink at that time too.

From the dining:
10 dining sink.jpg
From the kitchen:
11 kit sink edit.jpg

So, any thoughts about vents including pipe sizes & pitch?

Thanks.
 

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Fools rush in. . .

I'm not a plumber, nor do I play one on TV so take this with a huge grain of salt.

I don't think vent pipes are critical about location or pitch as long as they are coming into a drain from above so water doesn't obstruct the flow of air. You want them fairly close to the object being drained but a foot or two shouldn't be a real issue, at least to my thinking.

I think our vents are either 1 1/2 or 2" but I'm sure there's a code spec on that.

I also hope a real plumber weighs in because I could be totally wrong. It wouldn't be the first time, nor the last, lol.

Treefarmer
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Googled and got
plumbing vent distance from trap.JPG

The existing vertical vent is 1-1/2", the existing drain is 2". The distance from the existing vertical vent pipe to the drain is roughly 4 ft; the distance from the drain to the proposed p-trap for the bar sink should be about 4 ft. I think if I use 2" pipe I'm OK using the existing vent. Probably have to T it out and run it outside the stud area - inside cabinet. Thinking 1/4" slope for both trap to drain & drain to vertical vent. Sure would like that confirmed.
 

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The distances in your code reference are further than the reference book i used back in 1993. The distance limit documented back then was 5' for 2" and for my 1-1/4" bathroom trap size was 2'6" although I admit I had to go further than that on two vanities by a foot or two but had no issues at all in all the years since. We did not have to get my changes inspected way back then. I used 2" vent on all sinks and 3" for the toilets & showers / tubs up to the 3" vent pipe in the attic.

Are your trap sizes 1-1/2" coming off those sinks to 2" drain pipe? And is this needing to pass a local plumbing inspection?

If an inspection scenario you are best served by asking the plumbing AHJ. I think they will want a vent at least equal in size to the trap size and probably one pipe size larger if a 'common' or 'wet' vent scenario for the back to back sinks.

You do want to pitch your vents toward the drain 1/4" / foot . When rehabbing a house once, I found a section of vent pipe in the attic that was pitched the wrong way and wasn't glued at a 90. The wet spot on the ceiling drywall wasn't from a roof leak but that leaking fitting. The leak probably kept that vent 90 from becoming an unintended 'trap' and blocking the vent.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
I'm rural - at least today - & there's no inspection. Buda city limits is now across the street from me and eventually... AFAIK, my place isn't on their radar yet. :laugh: Anyhow, I'm just wanting to give it my best shot at preventing problems. Normally, I'd use a 1-1/2 p-trap, but the code I found makes me question this.

I wonder if this would work: a T at the existing 2" drain with one leg down to the drain (2"), the opposite leg up for vent (size?) and the middle out to the sink (1-1/2). I could go up 4" or so from the top leg, use an elbow then run over (horizontally with slope) to the existing vertical vent (1-1/2").

Thanks for looking.
 

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I'm rural - at least today - & there's no inspection. Buda city limits is now across the street from me and eventually... AFAIK, my place isn't on their radar yet. :laugh: Anyhow, I'm just wanting to give it my best shot at preventing problems. Normally, I'd use a 1-1/2 p-trap, but the code I found makes me question this.

I wonder if this would work: a T at the existing 2" drain with one leg down to the drain (2"), the opposite leg up for vent (size?) and the middle out to the sink (1-1/2). I could go up 4" or so from the top leg, use an elbow then run over (horizontally with slope) to the existing vertical vent (1-1/2").

Thanks for looking.
With no inspection and having an existing vent pipe, I would do exactly as you described using a 1-1/2" p trap on the sink to a T, 2" down to drain pipe and come off the top with 1-1/2" to tie into the existing 1-1/2" vent pipe. Especially having a three story house. Ours is a rancher so the run to the attic was much easier!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Avoid kinks in HVAC reroute

The rough-in of the 3/4" copper was not routed very well and I think the upper end is going to be a headache for my HVAC guy. Tried calling him to discuss, but the poor guy is just so overloaded with calls because of the heat that he's working l-o-n-g hours 6 days/week just on emergencies. It's just a one man company, but he's really good and I've used him for 30 years or so. Anyhow, I hope to route the copper so that I have a minimum amount outside the studs with bends that I can safely make without special tools. If I can cut the (drywall) nailer at the top of the 1st floor as part of the routing, maybe I can give him a few more inches on top for sweating.

Potential headache at ceiling of 2nd floor to attic:
0-2nd floor top end edit.jpg

overview at 1st floor:
1-1st floor edit.jpg

lower view at 1st floor:
2-1st floor exit to outside edit.jpg

upper view at 1st floor with proposed nailer cut:
3-1st floor plates & floor joist edit.jpg

Any techniques for putting "soft" elbows in the copper & avoiding kinks?
 

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Googled and got
View attachment 416162

The existing vertical vent is 1-1/2", the existing drain is 2". The distance from the existing vertical vent pipe to the drain is roughly 4 ft; the distance from the drain to the proposed p-trap for the bar sink should be about 4 ft. I think if I use 2" pipe I'm OK using the existing vent. Probably have to T it out and run it outside the stud area - inside cabinet. Thinking 1/4" slope for both trap to drain & drain to vertical vent. Sure would like that confirmed.
Former plumber's assistant here (did it as a summer job in college a few different summers and for a year after I graduated). 1.5" pipe is adequate for what you're venting, run at 1/4" per foot (quarter bubble on a level). If you have extra 2" pipe laying around, using it won't hurt you at all. Slope isn't all that important in a vent as long as it's in the correct direction.
 

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If I can cut the (drywall) nailer at the top of the 1st floor as part of the routing, maybe I can give him a few more inches on top for sweating.

...
Any techniques for putting "soft" elbows in the copper & avoiding kinks?

If you notch out the drywall nailer to recess the copper use a metal safety plate across the notch, 'cause you just know that is where you'll set the drywall screw and find the HVAC copper!

For bending the copper i used a few veggie/soup cans of different sizes to get the bends i needed in the copper run for the refrigerator water line. You still need to be careful not to make too tight a bend.
 

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Current project: upgrade electric service.

This was the old, hated Federal Pacific panel
View attachment 407266
These are the new panels at the pole. Hard to see, but hubby dug trench last fall with the 1025r.
View attachment 407274
More of the trench
View attachment 407282
I had to dig the 10 ft at the house through almost solid limestone with a demo hammer. Took me 2 weeks.
View attachment 407290
New panels at the house
View attachment 407298

I AM excited to have this done.:yahoo:
I'm happy for you; we finished our own elecyrical upgrade from 100 to 200 Amp service on the 40 year old frame over block home that we're renovating. I have no before photos of the 100A Wadsworth panel nor the 200A Siemens panel after , no photos of the 20 ft. long treated 6"x6" pole that we had to set and anchor, no photos of the hand dug trench from new pole to home. It's all said and done now, we have a new central A/C, tank-less water heater, and grounded receptacles for probably the first time ever in the home.

As Zac Brown sings: "Life is good today, life is good today"

Brian

I'm happy for you; we
 
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