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Discussion Starter #1
The 2004 2500HD/Crew/4x4/8.1/Allison has been a great truck since I ordered from factory. LT with leather, pretty much all the goodies, and now hitting 133k miles. Doesn't burn oil and runs like a top.

I would drive it every day, but it's 60 miles round trip to work and back, and 10.5 MPG hurts the wallet. I have an Accord to drive daily that knocks down 30 MPG, but it's getting up there...86k to date.

Kicking around the idea of moving to a Duramax. Truth be told, I really don't need a 3/4 ton 4x4...but I'd rather have it and not need it, as opposed to needing it and not having it...

Brother just got a 2018 Silverado 1500 CC/4x4/5.3/6speed. He likes it very much, as do I. But I prefer the ride, handling and capability of the HD's vs. the 1/2 tons.

Who has made the switch from gas to diesel (or vice versa).

Pros / Cons?

Thanks, D.
 

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Only diesel I’ve ever owned was a 6L ford power stroke... Have never owned a ford or diesel again after that! The power and fuel is much better for towing and even for driving.

Maintenance costs are much higher. Atleast 3 times what a gas engine is. Here gasoline is .90L where diesel is $1.35L. The premium for the engine is also another $10,000

All our work trucks now are 2500 Sierra/ Silverado 6.0L gas and I will continue to keep buying them. When the 2019 or 2020 HD models come out I will buy their new 6.6L gas
 

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Only diesel I’ve ever owned was a 6L ford power stroke... Have never owned a ford or diesel again after that! The power and fuel is much better for towing and even for driving.

Maintenance costs are much higher. Atleast 3 times what a gas engine is. Here gasoline is .90L where diesel is $1.35L. The premium for the engine is also another $10,000

All our work trucks now are 2500 Sierra/ Silverado 6.0L gas and I will continue to keep buying them. When the 2019 or 2020 HD models come out I will buy their new 6.6L gas
I agree 100% get the gas! You will never make up the difference you can buy a lot of gas for a 10,000 diesel upgrade and more costly maintenance as for towing that will just about tow anything if it set up.
right.

Doug
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I hear you...but that diesel sound...

I have been calculating out the numbers, two vehicles vs. one, factoring in added cost for diesel fuel, maintenance, wheel taxes (high in Nebr.), insurance, etc.

Swapping out Accord and the 8.1 and moving to 1/2 ton 5.3 or even a 6.2 will save me about $900-1k per year. Diesel would save about $400 per year.

Going with 2500HD with the 6.0 gas would save about $600 per year...but I'm leery of moving from the 8.1/Allison down to the 6.0.

Of course none of this factors in cost of the vehicle.

Like I said, I really don't ** need ** a diesel...but would like to try one this time around...

Good friend has run Dodge diesels for many years...just moved to 3/4 ton Dodge with the 6.4 gas...he regrets it.

Another buddy had a Duramax for 9 years, pulled trailer for work...moved back to 1500 Silverado 1500/5.3, and regrets it.

I'm torn...

It will likely be 18-24 months before I make the move...plenty of time to ponder, change my mind, and save $$$.
 

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Well if you can afford it and if it makes you smile go for it. You only live once enjoy.:thumbup1gif:

Doug
 

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I went from an 03 gmc 1500hd 6.0 liter to an 06 2500hd Duramax. Both crew cabs. I got them Both used and actually paid the same for each at the time of buying. Both loaded. I’m hoping to never go back gas if I can help it. I love my Duramax. The 03 got 12mpg without towing. And wellllll under 12 when towing my 16’ work trailer. With slightly larger than stock tires

The Duramax with 35” mud tires gets me 16 average. No less than 12 towing and over 20 cruising around 70. Not sure what I’d get if I had stock tires. I also have a tune that has my truck at around 460horsepower And over 900lbs torque. Got about 210,000miles on it now.

Maintenance hasn’t been that bad on mine. Think an oil change is a little more than doubled. When I bought my Duramax gas and diesel was about the same. I think diesel is about 70-80 cents more now.

I do use mine every day for work and pulling trailers though. Not a daily commuter. Well I do use it daily if I’m not working but that’s rare.
 

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Personally, I'd keep the 04 until the wheels fall off of it. The best money saved is not buying a new truck, especially if yours is paid off.

I keep vehicles as long as possible and don't hesitate to put money into them each year. I'd rather my hard earned cash go towards things like new tractors, and gators... but that's just me.

Other than that, gas all the way. EPA has sucked all the life out of diesels, and really high fuel costs.
 

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It may not make the best financial sense but I guaranty it will put a smile on your face when you drive it.
I drove GMC's for years but the last few trucks have been Fords.
I'm not sure if you have done much research on the new GM diesel but Gail Banks has some very good video's on youtube and from what I have seen and read GM has done a VERY good job updating this engine.
I agree with you and for years I have spec'd out trucks as heavy duty as I could buy them so that they didn't squat when I loaded them when I plowed commercially the heavier the truck the better they pushed. I got to the point that the heavy duty ride feels right to me and half tons feel like big soft cars.
Could I even begin to persuade you to at least test drive a Ford?
 

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When I bought my 2011 F250 4 years ago to tow my 31ft gooseneck tandem dually trailer, I went with gas as I did not want spend the extra for a diesel, nor did I want to have the extra cost of mainentance. I have a friend with a GMC diesel and just for an oil change, it is well over $100, whereas it costs me in the $30 range at the dealer for my gasser 6.2L, plus every 5th oil change is free. I am licensed out to 24,000# and have no problem in pulling that much weight. I believe I get pretty much the same mileage and since diesel is 50% higher right now, my fuel costs are considerably lower. I did make the decision to go with a 2011 or later as that was the first year of the 6.2L gasser, up from the 5.4L of the previous years. A big difference. I would not be saying the same nice things about the 5.4L. The 6.8L V10 gasser was available in earlier years, but is is just a 5.4L with 2 cylinders added. It was never noted for good fuel mileage, although power was decent. I don't believe it is as good as the 6.2L, however.

Dave
 

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If you don't need it you won't be able to justify it by any savings but by all means if you want it get it.

86k miles on a Honda is not getting on up there if it has been maintained. See them regularly with 250k miles

You may be surprised how much your current truck is worth, its valued there because it has lots of life left and is quite capable.
 

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I don't think the Honda is "up there" in mileage either, nor is the truck for that matter.

Want and need are two different things and you are the one going to work everyday.

If you can have what you want, then go for it and don't waste the time to justify it, just do it.


I would like a HD diesel pickup, but I don't really need it. I think diesel trucks are built to work and using them as commuter vehicles is not what they are built for. Kind of like having a race horse and just using it to give pony rides.

With that said, I'd still like to go diesel. I think it is a better fuel than what we are getting in gasoline now. Yes the EPA has degraded diesel, but soon we are going to be forced to E15 at the gas pump. :banghead:
 

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I have a 6.7 ford diesel and a ford 250 6.2, there just is no comparison between the two, the diesel is far and away a better truck for commuting or towing, yes maint. is higher but the gas truck is like back in the day with the over drive transmissions, hit a small hill and it shifts down two gears and won't go back into overdrive until you hit the top of the hill, the diesel on the same hill never blinks. and if you pull heavy loads the transmission brake is the cats meow. Was pulling a really heavy load with a friend in the truck going down a steep hill, tapped the brake and it down shifted to 5 gear and never touched the brakes again and it stayed right at 50 down the hill, the person with me said amazing. go rent each one for a weekend and see how they compare. now if they had put a turbo on the 6.2, I would probably get rid of the diesel.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
It may not make the best financial sense but I guaranty it will put a smile on your face when you drive it.
I drove GMC's for years but the last few trucks have been Fords.
I'm not sure if you have done much research on the new GM diesel but Gail Banks has some very good video's on youtube and from what I have seen and read GM has done a VERY good job updating this engine.
I agree with you and for years I have spec'd out trucks as heavy duty as I could buy them so that they didn't squat when I loaded them when I plowed commercially the heavier the truck the better they pushed. I got to the point that the heavy duty ride feels right to me and half tons feel like big soft cars.
Could I even begin to persuade you to at least test drive a Ford?
Thanks Jeff. Yes, I have watched the Gale Banks videos...makes me want a Duramax even more! And agree, 1/2 tons feel like cars. I want to drive a truck that looks like a truck, and rides like a truck. That's why I moved from 1/2 tons to the 2500HD back in 2004.

I just can't do a Ford. Been a GM guy all my life. I've driven friend's Fords and Dodges, and they are sweet trucks. I just prefer the GM products.

12dbsinad: Yep, driving until the wheels fall off was the plan. But I ain't getting any younger, and already have the x750 in the shop, and two ATV's, a 1972 Chevy K-20 just waiting for some TLC, no need for any new shotguns/rifles. Man's gotta have something to work towards and plan for.

psrumors: Yes, the Honda will last a very, very long time. I’ve owned four Accords and they have been rock solid. I would expect nothing less than 200k miles out of it. Good friend is service manager at GM dealership...says when I'm ready to sell the 8.1, just let him know. Those old Big Blocks are snatched up very quickly. Mine got hammered by baseball sized hail two years ago...insurance paid to fix it up, and while it was there I had the rusty rockers repaired. It's been a great truck and is in great shape. I'm considering the moves to Diesel partly because I should be able to get maximum value from the Accord and the 2500HD.

wildbranch2007: great points, this is why I’m hesitant to go from the 8.1/Allison to a 5.3 or even a 6.2. The Big Block has gobs of torque, and doesn’t seem to work hard, rarely downshifts. And the Allison transmission is fantastic when towing.

Very much appreciate all the opinions and wisdom here. Keep em coming...
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I would like a HD diesel pickup, but I don't really need it. I think diesel trucks are built to work and using them as commuter vehicles is not what they are built for. Kind of like having a race horse and just using it to give pony rides.
Agreed. I really don't need a diesel. But when buying vehicles I have always tried to get the most powerful engine possible. Don't want to have a case of the "wish-I-would-have"-s.

It is great to have the power and torque of the 8.1 when I need it.

I really didn't need the v6 in the Accord...but when I stomp on the pedal, that thing is a rocket!
 

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I did the opposite, went from 3 Diesel’s from 1996 until last year went back to gas. 2014 duramax was in the shop with emission problems a lot. (Another post on here somewhere with this discussion). Last time the ‘14 was in the shop and they couldn’t find the problem I asked them what they would give me for it on a trade right then. Great trade in price/resale, walked right to salesman and bought a gas on the spot. 2500hd gas. I do quite a bit of towing, but with all the emission problems, higher maintenance, diesel option cost and diesel fuel almost a dollars more a gallon here, I just couldn’t justify it any longer. Granted my 6.0 gas doesn’t pull like the duramax but at this point I am just not in as much of o hurry anymore:mocking:.
Having all Diesels at work and in tractors was a hard decision but haven’t regretted it at all so far. I have a 1998 Buick park avenue that Is my daily driver to work and around town which saves on fuel costs, mileage and door dings at the store to a $60,000 truck. Would/will I go back to a Diesel some day? Time will tell......just my 2 pennies
 

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I hear you...but that diesel sound...

I have been calculating out the numbers, two vehicles vs. one, factoring in added cost for diesel fuel, maintenance, wheel taxes (high in Nebr.), insurance, etc.

Swapping out Accord and the 8.1 and moving to 1/2 ton 5.3 or even a 6.2 will save me about $900-1k per year. Diesel would save about $400 per year.

Going with 2500HD with the 6.0 gas would save about $600 per year...but I'm leery of moving from the 8.1/Allison down to the 6.0.

Of course none of this factors in cost of the vehicle.

Like I said, I really don't ** need ** a diesel...but would like to try one this time around...

Good friend has run Dodge diesels for many years...just moved to 3/4 ton Dodge with the 6.4 gas...he regrets it.

Another buddy had a Duramax for 9 years, pulled trailer for work...moved back to 1500 Silverado 1500/5.3, and regrets it.

I'm torn...

It will likely be 18-24 months before I make the move...plenty of time to ponder, change my mind, and save $$$.
Well if You Just want the Diesel Sound

Buy a Nissan Titan XD Gas. My Titan XD Gas get's Mistaken all the time for a Diesel especially at the dealer

If I Had Known My Mechanic was Retiring this Year I would Have Bought a Titan XD with a Cummings Diesel and Just dealt with Dealer service. Which eventually I will Buy a Titan XD with a Diesel In a year or so Just Because the XD Gas In a Real Gas Guzzler compared to My Previous 2005 Titan:bigthumb:
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Well if You Just want the Diesel Sound

Buy a Nissan Titan XD Gas. My Titan XD Gas get's Mistaken all the time for a Diesel especially at the dealer

If I Had Known My Mechanic was Retiring this Year I would Have Bought a Titan XD with a Cummings Diesel and Just dealt with Dealer service. Which eventually I will Buy a Titan XD with a Diesel In a year or so Just Because the XD Gas In a Real Gas Guzzler compared to My Previous 2005 Titan
Curious, what kind of MPG is your Titan gas getting?
 

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Agreed. I really don't need a diesel. But when buying vehicles I have always tried to get the most powerful engine possible. Don't want to have a case of the "wish-I-would-have"-s.

It is great to have the power and torque of the 8.1 when I need it.

I really didn't need the v6 in the Accord...but when I stomp on the pedal, that thing is a rocket!

We all know the advantages of a diesel. That being said, as a fixed income senior, I cannot justify the extra cost of a diesel when I tow less than 5% of the time. If I was towing the great majority of my time, then a diesel would be justified. I have no problems towing my 31ft gooseneck tandem dually with my 6.2L gasser. However, I have found that it works much better if I do not use cruise control. That causes a lot of unnecessary shifting. If I allow it to just pull down a little bit on the bigger hills, it rarely shifts down from 6th gear, unless I am using the tow/haul feature. I use the tow/haul feature more for braking. As soon as I touch the brake pedal, it starts downshifting the tranny for braking. Since the top two gears are overdrive, it amazes me that I can town in 6th gear most of the time. However, if I use cruise control, then it sometimes shifts down as low as 4th gear. BTW, I only turn 1800 RPM at 70 in 6th gear and that is with standard 3.73 gears.

I live a mile from a major US hwy where I could run 80 if I wanted to and a diesel would make that much easier. However, I usually tow around 65/70, which makes it much easier. And more economical. Most of the time, I tow around 70, but on a run to Iowa on the interstate a couple of years ago, I held it to around 65 and got 1 MPG better gas mileage. That might not sound like much to someone getting 40 MPG, but it is a lot when you are towing. I usually get around 11 MPG when towing my 7300# trailer empty with gross around 14,000#. It drops accordingly depending on how much the load increases. I hauled a smaller Ford ag tractor about 120 miles last year for a friend and got 10.5 MPG. When hauling my 4066R with the RFM attached, that grosses me at about 22,000# and mileage drops to around 10. A little caveat here, I usually burn non-ethanol gas which gets me 20% better gas mileage for a small increase in cost of fuel. The higher the price of fuel, the more advantage it is burn non-ethanol gas. At current prices, the advantage is much smaller. My current tank is ethanol fuel as I was where I could get it much cheaper than usual.

Dave
 

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It depends on how you want/need to "justify" it.

If you aren't "using" a diesel to tow/haul, you will never be able to justify it with dollars and cents. Just driving, a gasser will do everything a diesel will more economically.
Add in towing/hauling, and the gap closes. Yes a gasser can tow/haul too, but generally, a diesel just does it better, especially the newer ones!

That being said, I have a diesel, and will always have a diesel.
I don't "need" it. Yes, I have a 40' toyhauler, but the 6.2 gas would tug it around for the camping we do.
I also have a beat up Grand Am for a daily, so my pickup sits unless I'm towing/hauling, hunting, or need the 4x4.
Average about 10k a year on the pickup.

YMMV. Do what you WANT to do. I can guarantee that 70% of the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks on the road aren't "needed", but it's what they want.
 

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Disclaimer - My comments all assume the ownership costs of the vehicle are affordable to the buyer and not making them have to eat peanut butter sandwiches for the rest of their loan period. If the loan payment is a burden to you, buy a vehicle with a loan payment which fits your budget.

The reality is that the new trucks do amazing things with both the gas and diesel engines. From an actual economic stand point, the diesel is really only "justified" if you tow heavy loads and do it often. The towing capacity of all the modern trucks meets the towing needs of 95% + of all buyers, even in the 1/2 ton trucks. Unless you drive a lot of miles, it's hard to justify the expense of a new diesel as well in a "cost per mile" analysis.

In reality, if its what you want and you can afford it, go for it. Life is too short to live with regrets. When I assess the vehicle costs, I look at the monthly cost to own, which is the payment (if you have one) and then the insurance, fuel use, plates, fees, taxes, etc.

Other issues which actually make more of a difference is the cost of your capital. If you have a choice of a new gas truck for $58,000 and the loan interest is 6% at your credit union and the cost of a new diesel truck at $70,000 and the loan interest is 0% from the truck maker, then the difference isn't what it seems.

For example, for 72 months on the gas truck, you would pay $961.23 for 72 months. The total loan interest cost would be $11,208.32 making the total cost to purchase the truck $58,000 plus the $11,208.32 or a total of $69,208.32.

But the $70k diesel, at 72 months at 0% would be a $972.22 per month. The total purchase price would be $70k. The difference is only $11 per month, which is $132 per year. Assuming both trucks are optioned the same, maintained the same and driven the same miles, which truck do you think will have higher resale value? Clearly, the diesel.

It's easy to look up the trucks in this example, if you don't have ad blocker, which I do and if I won't turn it off, which I won't. So, I can't look up examples of what a 2013 GMC with the gas engine and the same with the Duramax engine resale values but I am sure others can. I will spoil the surprise and say We already know the Duramax truck is going to have a higher value.

The thing about all of these vehicle decisions which always amaze me the most, is just how quickly someone will give up thousands of dollars by simply trading their trucks without really negotiating or attempting to sell their used vehicles on their own.

The amount of money which is given up in the trade process would have a profound impact on the ownership costs, but most people don't hesitate to trade as they don't want to bother with selling the vehicles on their own. After all, its far easier to toss the keys for the old truck on the desk as you drive off with the new truck, but you have to know that doing that is costing you thousands of dollars verses selling it yourself.

Yes, the world is full of idiots and strokes who like to waste your time. You just have to decide how much you are willing to pay for the convenience of trading. If you feel it's worth $5,000 of your money to make it easier for you, then you are the one paying the $5,000 so it's your choice. After all, the dealers count on people not wanting to bother with selling their own vehicle when buying new.


When you are trading, you likely aren't getting the best purchase price on the new vehicle, as the dealer has to build into the deal the cost to recondition and prepare your trade in for sale. Just keep that in mind.

Bottom line, get what YOU WANT and don't use some cost analysis to convince you to go against your actual ownership desire. As part of your purchase process, try and obtain the closest to 0% financing which you can and also deal with the disposition of your old vehicles yourself. This would be the best way to spend the least amount "net" and to be driving the vehicle which you want.

It gets real costly when someone talks themselves into buying something they really don't want and then in a short period of time, they end up trading in on a new vehicle. Rolling "negative equity" in to the new vehicle purchase blows the cost models apart and just demonstrates how sometimes, compromising on your original purchase because of some analysis which convinced you to buy what you really didn't want, can be a very costly error........

In summary, all of the analysis being performed before hand, quickly loses relevance if you are;

- Trading in your old vehicle as you are receiving as much as 20% less for it than you would get selling it outright.

- Be aware of the cost of the money used to pay for your vehicle. Get the lowest cost loan money whenever possible. Use 0% manufacturer loan money whenever possible.

- Know the realistic values of your vehicles, which is very easy to do with kbb.com or nada.com (if you turn off your ad blocker).

- Also, always remember, every time you involve a 3rd party to "get you the best deal", you are paying for the privilege. Sometimes, dearly. Does anyone really think they get a better deal on their hotel room by using one of the room booking services verses dealing directly with the hotel themselves?

- Negative equity kills the economy of any new purchase. When the old vehicle is worth less than the amount owed, you are rolling that deficit into the new vehicle, which means you are starting in an even deeper hole. Avoid doing this unless you have no choice and usually, although you may not like the choice, you do have a choice.
 
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