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Discussion Starter #1
Doctored up the last update I got from my forester (Al), so it's got the old access route still laid out in it. I think the new landing will be in the left-most "optional" area (what I really want clear cut, but Al is reluctant to mark as such because the stand might be super thin when the oaks are all that's left down there).

The new access is the black/purple arrow on the North boundary.

Timber map 12-17.jpg

I also want a meandering trail cut around the Southern edge of the property from the clear cut on the West over to the South end of the rifle range. My hopes would be to have some grouse, tree rat, and bunny hunting down there - in addition to promoting deer travel on known corridors surrounding what will end up various food sources (the big bucks bed on the ridge about 400' South of my South lot line). Al doesn't like crowding the sale documents and says it's easier to just tell the cutter what you want when they're present and have them bang it out vs trying to map it into the contract. Al's main thing is getting enough acreage on the sale to interest the buyers and then work out the fine points when they're cutting. That's also why my rifle range hasn't been laid out on the contract. It'll get done when they're there, but it's not on anyone's paper as being a rifle range for a few reasons.

"Clear Cut with reserves": is where red and white oak, and possibly maple - which are straight and single stems will be "off limits". So what we really have is a select cut only we're going down to the dirt with everything we're not leaving. My neighbor with a sugar shack is trying to buy up the other parcels on my block for more sap trees, so I'm thinking we're going to leave more maple to open the possibility of selling sap to him in the future.

Feel free to ask questions. I'll post updates and pics here as things progress.

We're going to have the "sit down" meeting with the logger next week, and boots on the ground in short order after that. :yahoo:
 

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Ground marking

Doctored up the last update I got from my forester (Al), so it's got the old access route still laid out in it. I think the new landing will be in the left-most "optional" area (what I really want clear cut, but Al is reluctant to mark as such because the stand might be super thin when the oaks are all that's left down there).

The new access is the black/purple arrow on the North boundary.

View attachment 517538

I also want a meandering trail cut around the Southern edge of the property from the clear cut on the West over to the South end of the rifle range. My hopes would be to have some grouse, tree rat, and bunny hunting down there - in addition to promoting deer travel on known corridors surrounding what will end up various food sources (the big bucks bed on the ridge about 400' South of my South lot line). Al doesn't like crowding the sale documents and says it's easier to just tell the cutter what you want when they're present and have them bang it out vs trying to map it into the contract. Al's main thing is getting enough acreage on the sale to interest the buyers and then work out the fine points when they're cutting. That's also why my rifle range hasn't been laid out on the contract. It'll get done when they're there, but it's not on anyone's paper as being a rifle range for a few reasons.

"Clear Cut with reserves": is where red and white oak, and possibly maple - which are straight and single stems will be "off limits". So what we really have is a select cut only we're going down to the dirt with everything we're not leaving. My neighbor with a sugar shack is trying to buy up the other parcels on my block for more sap trees, so I'm thinking we're going to leave more maple to open the possibility of selling sap to him in the future.

Feel free to ask questions. I'll post updates and pics here as things progress.

We're going to have the "sit down" meeting with the logger next week, and boots on the ground in short order after that. :yahoo:
One way to handle the various reserve areas is to denote (paint) them on the ground and just have the contract say cutting will be in accordance with the ground marking. You already have the map so unless the boundary marking is a cost issue, it's not hard to do.

Good luck. That's a different sale than a pure clear cut which are straightforward.

Treefarmer
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Al's got all the boundaries painted for the stuff included in the sale, and we did the North 40 work together then he came back and did the South 40 work on his own. The S40 is a poorly regenerating stand, so his concern is that rather than having a middle block surrounded by clear cuts, I'll have a middle clear cut and would regret losing more trees.

The trails that are marked are existing and are clearly visible in the woods. I'll be adding a couple that aren't on the above pic, and we may decide to add another once we determine what happens in the house site. I want to be able to have a semi truck and trailer drive in and drive out without having to back up at all.

The line denoting the selective harvest on the NW corner (most of the upper half of the property) follows a ridge line, which also follows the aspen pretty closely (there's some that are further East up there, but the West side is the big stand). There's going to be a lot of wood coming off that ridge!

The aspen in the S40 is more concentrated in the area just inside the South lot line on the SW corner (the outside edge of my trail) and that was cut-over to provide bedding a few years ago. I'm keeping the loggers out of there to preserve the existing habitat. Much of the stand towards the middle of that block is scrubby oak and BIG basswoods. I'm not going for a monoculture anywhere (quite the opposite - I want to introduce prairie grasses and forbs to ground which sees no sun), but I do have a "hit list" of non-invasives that I'm fine with exterminating from the landscape. If we get aspen regen, it won't hurt my feelings; but I'd be fine with wiping them out too. :mocking:

I'll be on-site as will Al when cutting happens, so between us and the painted lines - we'll get it done right.
 

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Wish I was closer

Al's got all the boundaries painted for the stuff included in the sale, and we did the North 40 work together then he came back and did the South 40 work on his own. The S40 is a poorly regenerating stand, so his concern is that rather than having a middle block surrounded by clear cuts, I'll have a middle clear cut and would regret losing more trees.

The trails that are marked are existing and are clearly visible in the woods. I'll be adding a couple that aren't on the above pic, and we may decide to add another once we determine what happens in the house site. I want to be able to have a semi truck and trailer drive in and drive out without having to back up at all.

The line denoting the selective harvest on the NW corner (most of the upper half of the property) follows a ridge line, which also follows the aspen pretty closely (there's some that are further East up there, but the West side is the big stand). There's going to be a lot of wood coming off that ridge!

The aspen in the S40 is more concentrated in the area just inside the South lot line on the SW corner (the outside edge of my trail) and that was cut-over to provide bedding a few years ago. I'm keeping the loggers out of there to preserve the existing habitat. Much of the stand towards the middle of that block is scrubby oak and BIG basswoods. I'm not going for a monoculture anywhere (quite the opposite - I want to introduce prairie grasses and forbs to ground which sees no sun), but I do have a "hit list" of non-invasives that I'm fine with exterminating from the landscape. If we get aspen regen, it won't hurt my feelings; but I'd be fine with wiping them out too. :mocking:

I'll be on-site as will Al when cutting happens, so between us and the painted lines - we'll get it done right.
I wish I was closer and could come "inspect". It's a different habitat than we have and I know I could learn from seeing what you are doing. Besides that, it's just fun watching a plan come together.

Good luck- enjoy the process as well as the proceeds.

Treefarmer
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I'm almost giddy, I'm so excited this work is getting done! It's not about the money (I definitely need the money, but that's not why we're cutting), it's about getting things put how I want them.

As the old saying goes: the best time to plant a tree was 10 years ago, but the next best is today. I've planted 1K trees over the past 7 years, and they're stunted and starving for light. We're going to fix that! :good2:
 

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I'm almost giddy, I'm so excited this work is getting done! It's not about the money (I definitely need the money, but that's not why we're cutting), it's about getting things put how I want them.

As the old saying goes: the best time to plant a tree was 10 years ago, but the next best is today. I've planted 1K trees over the past 7 years, and they're stunted and starving for light. We're going to fix that! :good2:
You’re right - you are making your forest healthy. The money is a side benefit but very welcome of course!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
A couple "before pics".

These are two of my draws. They all flow water in the spring.
012.jpg

004.jpg

Then this is my driveway inside the swamp the first day it became a trail. Funny to think how I once couldn't drive an atv through there without scratching up the paint back in 2011, and now it'll pass a semi tractor trailer rig. :mocking:
050.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #10
At some point there was a fence out in the S40 or something. I have about 6 of these not all that close to my lot line spread over 1/4 mile. It's rebar that's been bent into a nice straight post of loops.
IMAG0203.jpg

This is the old "ox cart trail" that was my 100yd rifle range for the past 6 years. The dozer will be run on the left side of this section to expand it for truck traffic and skidding. The right will be savanna, and the left will be some kind of "shelter wood" extensive harvest. I'm concerned about clear cutting it and what effect that might have on the spruce I'll be replanting with, and the oak/maple I'm keeping on the right.
IMAG0355.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #11
This is the base of the draw behind where the house is going. All this will be cut back to savanna.

View attachment DSC00018.JPG

This was the pond site looking towards the lake before I started cutting trees.
IMAG0421.jpg

The Mrs. and kiddo after helping collect the "sticks" that were then dumped into the swamp for corduroy trail construction (one of many, many, many, many such loads - and part of why I had no desire to excavate to firm bottom).
IMAG0426.jpg

This was my first two apple trees and on the North side of the draw behind where the house is going (to the left of the draw). All of this will be savanna too. It's not obvious in the pic, but that hill drops down pretty steep. One idea I've been floating (bad pun) is to bulldoze the whole foreground side and make a pond here. Those apple trees died after their second year - probably due to me burning their roots with fertilizer back when I didn't know any better.
IMAG0448.jpg
 

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savanna

This is the base of the draw behind where the house is going. All this will be cut back to savanna.

View attachment 519970

This was the pond site looking towards the lake before I started cutting trees.
View attachment 519978

The Mrs. and kiddo after helping collect the "sticks" that were then dumped into the swamp for corduroy trail construction (one of many, many, many, many such loads - and part of why I had no desire to excavate to firm bottom).
View attachment 519986

This was my first two apple trees and on the North side of the draw behind where the house is going (to the left of the draw). All of this will be savanna too. It's not obvious in the pic, but that hill drops down pretty steep. One idea I've been floating (bad pun) is to bulldoze the whole foreground side and make a pond here. Those apple trees died after their second year - probably due to me burning their roots with fertilizer back when I didn't know any better.
View attachment 519994
How are you going to create the savanna? I know in this area people are creating pine savannas but it involves a heavier than normal thinning and then prescribed burning. It's a bit harder to burn hardwoods without damaging the trees you want.

Are you going to cut and then burn? Is there another alternative for hardwoods?

Treefarmer
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Oak is actually pretty durable when exposed to fire, but I'm going to use mechanical cutting and chemical treatments (glyphosate) instead since I don't like the idea of burning the woods down. :laugh:

The oaks are already present, just need to remove the weed trees and get the forbs growing.
 

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Thanks

Oak is actually pretty durable when exposed to fire, but I'm going to use mechanical cutting and chemical treatments (glyphosate) instead since I don't like the idea of burning the woods down. :laugh:

The oaks are already present, just need to remove the weed trees and get the forbs growing.
I guess that means ground application for the chemical. The first time through, someone is going to earn their pay. After that it shouldn't be too bad. I've done the brush saw thing and again, that first few times is tough. After that it get's better as the crown trees and forbs start to cut down on the trash tree sprouts.

Treefarmer
 

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Yeah, that 'employee' earning his pay is the dumb-azz owner who thinks this crazy stuff up. :lolol:

I've got a nice forestry trimmer already, and will be investing in either a backpack sprayer or might just get a 12v pump and run out of a 55gal barrel with a long hose. Basal treatments for the stumps to kill the sprouts this spring, some gly for the thistle which will try to come out, and a good dose of seeds for the prairie regen. If the stumps are low enough, I can run the bush hog too, or I might end up grinding them or renting an excavator.

If things get out of hand, I can always run the weed burner or rip the whole works out with the root grapple.

There's a reason I'm not ordering any trees this year. I'm crazy, not stupid. :mocking:
 

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Lots of fun

Yeah, that 'employee' earning his pay is the dumb-azz owner who thinks this crazy stuff up. :lolol:

I've got a nice forestry trimmer already, and will be investing in either a backpack sprayer or might just get a 12v pump and run out of a 55gal barrel with a long hose. Basal treatments for the stumps to kill the sprouts this spring, some gly for the thistle which will try to come out, and a good dose of seeds for the prairie regen. If the stumps are low enough, I can run the bush hog too, or I might end up grinding them or renting an excavator.

If things get out of hand, I can always run the weed burner or rip the whole works out with the root grapple.

There's a reason I'm not ordering any trees this year. I'm crazy, not stupid. :mocking:
LOL, you will have lots to be proud of when it starts to shape up. In the meantime, there might be some sore muscles. I've got about one, maybe two more years before I do a prescribed burn on some longleaf pines. Part of me is really looking forward to it as I want to give the pines all the help I can. Part of me is dreading it as I've worked two prescribed burns that jumped fire lines. (One was all ours and the damage was minimal, the other was burned over into our property from a neighbor and we walked that fire for two months before it was finally out.)

You can bet your bottom line that I'll have adequate fire lines, people and equipment on hand before tipping the torch over on my intended burn. There's almost no chance the fire could leave my land which is a relief but it could burn a lot more than desired if it's not done right.

I love dealing with forestry but it can have it's moments. 20 years of work, planning and investing can all go up in a puff of smoke or a wind storm.

Treefarmer
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I love dealing with forestry but it can have it's moments. 20 years of work, planning and investing can all go up in a puff of smoke or a wind storm.

Treefarmer
My absentee neighbors had a few drinks their last night at the lake after pulling the dock and lift for winter back in late October - started shooting aerial fireworks (which aren't even legal here) at 11 pm, despite burn restrictions being in place and we were only allowed a camp fire, with 25mph gusts to boot. They blew me off when I politely (seriously, I was nice despite being rather irritated) informed them it wasn't a bright idea. If they burned my woods down, I'd push their shack and everything on their lot into my swamp and light it. They'd probably get notice from one of the whiners, but they'd have nothing left after their 6 hour drive from Michigan, you can take that to the bank! I think the guy's dad built that shack himself - old man was buddies with my FIL, but he was dead before I entered the picture. I've tried to be nice to them, but only one cousin who was also Army has ever been cordial back.

Current "father figure" of the clan was shooting a revolver at cardboard with my swamp as the backstop - after the rounds passed over the public road. These guys ain't the sharpest tools in the scrap pile.

We've had some serious wind damage as close as the neighbor's lot we're accessing through the last few years. I've been blessed to not lose much inventory in any of them. Doesn't mean my blood pressure's any lower in the throws of a 75mph straight-line wind. :desert:


I've been dreaming about these plans for about 4 years. Been geeking out on logging videos on youtube for as long as I've owned the joint. I know I've got a massive amount of work to make everything come together, but that never really slowed me down before. I can see the outcome of what I want to achieve in my head; I just need to translate that image into reality. Working in the woods makes me happy.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Dozer guy started expanding the roads today. He arrived mid-afternoon, and had a rough start with this oak.

20180129_160024.jpg

Oak beats Pine :lol:
20180129_160028.jpg

Power crew got right on swapping poles.
20180129_175540.jpg

20 customers shut off for 45 mins at dinner time. Oh well, at least most of those aren't even aware of it. I'd guess 4-5 real outtages on this leg.

He's got something else going on tomorrow, but will resume work on Wed.
 

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Power company charge?

Will the power company knick him (or you) for the repair cost? I've always wondered about cutting trees close to a line and didn't want to find out.

Treefarmer
 

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Will the power company knick him (or you) for the repair cost? I've always wondered about cutting trees close to a line and didn't want to find out.

Treefarmer
Well I guess they can't blame you for not calling 411 first before you dig since the power was above ground....

Yeah I am not sure, normally it is the power company's responsibility to keep trees away from the power lines. At least up to the transformer. From the transformer to the point of use it on you. Where I live, we have the power line coming down the property line which is lined by white pines. They come through every couple years and cut them back and have occasionally removed a tree. However we have a pine (which is dead) that is between the transformer and the house that I need to take care of. I would be fine with dealing with it but it is taller than the power lines and there are branches going across the power line going from the transformer to the house. Might just have to hire that one out...


Back to your question. I kind of wonder myself. Where was the Oak that took out the pole if it is was close, might be able to argue the point.
 
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