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Discussion Starter #1
I have a loader that I built for my 318 in 2012, I'd like to convert it for use on my new 1023e


I have used it, mounted to the stock front implement mounting points on my 318 since 2012 on countless projects (from digging landscape stuff, to spreading 22yards of gravel on my 200+ ft long driveway).

I wont say nothing has broken... but I will say age, mowing 2.5 acres twice a week, and snow-blowing in upstate NY were more likely causes than the loader. (the steering cylinder bracket pulled off the frame... mowing and blowing see a lot of "lock to lock" action.. loading, I am very careful not to go to the locks when loaded)
I will say nothing has broken while using the loader, and I do not believe it has caused breakage nor undue wear.

Some might think that I overworked the 318.. My bucket weighs almost 3/5ths (313lb) of the "made for this tractor" Deere 44 loader(500lb), the tractor to bucket load moment is not much further off the front axle(unlike some "loaders" i've seen for sale..wow..), the bucket is smaller capacity and it only lifts to 44 inches.

I did add a 3rd spool, because using a shutoff valve on the rear 3point/mower lift to try and differentiate was a joke and exercise in futility... this is part of why I went 1023e instead of X700s series (no third spool...lighter frame)

I have picked up 700+lbs with it, and it weighs 313lbs by itself. (I did this once, ballasted by my landscape rake)

I am selling the 318, but, as I really don't need any more height nor bucket capacity than what my loader can already do (and..I built it.. so I am emotionally attached to it)... I'd like to use it on my 1023e.

I've no issue with my fabrication skills...every part of this loader, including the bucket and tooth bar, was built from common steel tubing and flat metal.
The only thing I did not build, were the hydraulic cylinders and hose fittings (I even pressed the hose ends on)

I can cut out and reconfigure the mount easily... My thought, is to get an extra LVA22590 and build off of that.
(it's the plate that's in the BLV10796 front quick hitch adapter kit ($273).. cheaper than the part alone($450)..odd.. )

I'll see how heavy duty that plate is when my tractor arrives (hopefully this week) and decide.

My question is.. has anyone done any custom mounting of "non standard" implements to the front of the 1023e, 1025r, or 1026 frame?

I see companies like heavy hitch building weight brackets claiming capacity for 8)70lb weights(560lbs) hanging of the quick attach mounts. The 1023e frame looks considerably heavier than the 318 frame(the X700 series did not)... the only concern I have is the distance between my mounting pins.. the quick attach pins are close together.

I will have to be careful of the cylinder force... the 3" cylinders running on the 950psi 318 Deere system, will behave differently on the 1023e's 2000+ psi

My sales guy at Deere says the weight, if it worked fine on my 318, wont hurt the 1023e at all, nor void any warranties as long as I don't alter the tractor itself... but (of course..) they wont be responsible if it doesn't fit right and hits the grill or something, or if I exceed the front axle weight capacity(1349lbs continuous)
The 120R, for this tractor, that weighs 625lbs can lift 800lbs at the pins...no worries there.

Please share any thoughts or ideas.

The one idea that I am guessing most will offer... Sell it, then add $1000-1500 more cash to buy the one that fits(the D120 is ~$2600 quoted), is already being considered.
Thanks!!
 

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Discussion Starter #2
On the 1023, part (4) that I want to use as my base, slides into bracket (2)
The pin distance looks pretty close together, but the metal looks twice as thick (I'll know more when its in my hands)

LVA22590(4).jpg

I might build a bracket that reaches further back on the 1023 frame to spread the load.

LVA22590(4)mod.jpg

On my 318, the pins are 7.6" apart

318frame.jpg

loadermount.jpg
 

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I have a loader that I built for my 318 in 2012, I'd like to convert it for use on my new 1023e


I have used it, mounted to the stock front implement mounting points on my 318 since 2012 on countless projects (from digging landscape stuff, to spreading 22yards of gravel on my 200+ ft long driveway).

I wont say nothing has broken... but I will say age, mowing 2.5 acres twice a week, and snow-blowing in upstate NY were more likely causes than the loader. (the steering cylinder bracket pulled off the frame... mowing and blowing see a lot of "lock to lock" action.. loading, I am very careful not to go to the locks when loaded)
I will say nothing has broken while using the loader, and I do not believe it has caused breakage nor undue wear.

Some might think that I overworked the 318.. My bucket weighs almost 3/5ths (313lb) of the "made for this tractor" Deere 44 loader(500lb), the tractor to bucket load moment is not much further off the front axle(unlike some "loaders" i've seen for sale..wow..), the bucket is smaller capacity and it only lifts to 44 inches.

I did add a 3rd spool, because using a shutoff valve on the rear 3point/mower lift to try and differentiate was a joke and exercise in futility... this is part of why I went 1023e instead of X700s series (no third spool...lighter frame)

I have picked up 700+lbs with it, and it weighs 313lbs by itself. (I did this once, ballasted by my landscape rake)

I am selling the 318, but, as I really don't need any more height nor bucket capacity than what my loader can already do (and..I built it.. so I am emotionally attached to it)... I'd like to use it on my 1023e.

I've no issue with my fabrication skills...every part of this loader, including the bucket and tooth bar, was built from common steel tubing and flat metal.
The only thing I did not build, were the hydraulic cylinders and hose fittings (I even pressed the hose ends on)

I can cut out and reconfigure the mount easily... My thought, is to get an extra LVA22590 and build off of that.
(it's the plate that's in the BLV10796 front quick hitch adapter kit ($273).. cheaper than the part alone($450)..odd.. )

I'll see how heavy duty that plate is when my tractor arrives (hopefully this week) and decide.

My question is.. has anyone done any custom mounting of "non standard" implements to the front of the 1023e, 1025r, or 1026 frame?

I see companies like heavy hitch building weight brackets claiming capacity for 8)70lb weights(560lbs) hanging of the quick attach mounts. The 1023e frame looks considerably heavier than the 318 frame(the X700 series did not)... the only concern I have is the distance between my mounting pins.. the quick attach pins are close together.

I will have to be careful of the cylinder force... the 3" cylinders running on the 950psi 318 Deere system, will behave differently on the 1023e's 2000+ psi

My sales guy at Deere says the weight, if it worked fine on my 318, wont hurt the 1023e at all, nor void any warranties as long as I don't alter the tractor itself... but (of course..) they wont be responsible if it doesn't fit right and hits the grill or something, or if I exceed the front axle weight capacity(1349lbs continuous)
The 120R, for this tractor, that weighs 625lbs can lift 800lbs at the pins...no worries there.

Please share any thoughts or ideas.

The one idea that I am guessing most will offer... Sell it, then add $1000-1500 more cash to buy the one that fits(the D120 is ~$2600 quoted), is already being considered.
Thanks!!
Under no circumstances would I buy the D120 loader, verses the 120R loader. The D120 loader is a project to put on and take off the machine, verses less than a minute for the 120R or the H120 loader. No "D" loader, for sure.........the only time the D120 loaders were sold were typically as part of a deal which also showed the 1023e, the 54" deck and the D120 loader to keep the combined cost as low as possible. The D series loaders on these 1 series tractors is an extremely unpopular option because of it's difficulty to take on and off the machine. Effectively, most with D series loaders don't ever remove them............

While I admire your creativity and desire to fabricate that which doesn't exist, I would still rather have a fully functioning loader designed for that machine. You haven't run into situations where you have needed more lift or capacity or height than what your custom loader has been able to provide, having the opportunity to use a loader which does achieve those goals would be a big plus.

I would either sell the loader with your tractor, or to someone looking for the loader for their tractor. If you end up with more than one person wanting your loader, you could always fabricate another one for them and sell it. You could become a source for the loaders for the 3 series machines like you are selling.....

I just think that having the limited lift height and smaller bucket loader on the 1023e will not be used as it would if it were a 120R or H120 loader. Plus, being able to use pallet forks would be a HUGE benefit, I use my pallet forks more than my bucket.

Firmly, I am in the sell it and put the money towards the loader designed for the new tractor camp.
 

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I'm not a wizard with words like Sully..

But I have to agree with His thoughts.

IF..you don't think you will ever need more loader than the one You built...Keep the whole 318 with its unique loader and
skip the loader on the new tractor.
If the goal is to only have 1 machine....Buy once Cry Once...Get everything you may ever want and be done.

I'd guess you could easily get a couple grand for your home brewed loader.....People up here are asking 2k for old school craftsman lawn tractor loaders and complete machines with loaders are 4k. NOT GREEN.
Yes they have been listed for a while.....Small Green Machines are a rarity in Oregon. Its either junk riding mower or Huge stuff.
The Hobby farm type stuff =( everything scut-lcut) is crazy high priced.

Your loader looked odd at first...The video proves it functions quite well...it belongs where it is..318.
 

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Under no circumstances would I buy the D120 loader, verses the 120R loader. The D120 loader is a project to put on and take off the machine, verses less than a minute for the 120R or the H120 loader. No "D" loader, for sure.........the only time the D120 loaders were sold were typically as part of a deal which also showed the 1023e, the 54" deck and the D120 loader to keep the combined cost as low as possible. The D series loaders on these 1 series tractors is an extremely unpopular option because of it's difficulty to take on and off the machine. Effectively, most with D series loaders don't ever remove them............

While I admire your creativity and desire to fabricate that which doesn't exist, I would still rather have a fully functioning loader designed for that machine. You haven't run into situations where you have needed more lift or capacity or height than what your custom loader has been able to provide, having the opportunity to use a loader which does achieve those goals would be a big plus.

I would either sell the loader with your tractor, or to someone looking for the loader for their tractor. If you end up with more than one person wanting your loader, you could always fabricate another one for them and sell it. You could become a source for the loaders for the 3 series machines like you are selling.....

I just think that having the limited lift height and smaller bucket loader on the 1023e will not be used as it would if it were a 120R or H120 loader. Plus, being able to use pallet forks would be a HUGE benefit, I use my pallet forks more than my bucket.

Firmly, I am in the sell it and put the money towards the loader designed for the new tractor camp.
What he ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ said.

IMHO, it makes no sense to spend as much money as you did for your 1023E and not be able to use it to it's capacity. You now have a tractor that is much more capable than your 3xx. I would sell the loader with the tractor and buy an H120 or 120R. Shop around for a new leftover H120 loader. You may get a deal on one.
 

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First, impressive fab skills but I agree with the others. Once you move to four wheel drive and the capabilities that brings the extra lift and uses you have will rise. Forks will be easier to hook up along with other options.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thank you all for your advice :)

I worry in selling my loader.. and I liable if someone makes a mistake and gets hurt?
I guess I ask the buyer to sign a paper saying, "I know this is a home made, un-tested prototype, and I assume all risks"

I did the "Buy Once, Cry Once" in purchasing this tractor (Used up most of my "Cry")

I could buy a "Bush Hog"(which I really do want and would use a lot) for the difference in cost between the 120R and D120.

Can any of you that have owned the D120 comment on how bad it really is?
I know it "sounds bad"... but us it $1200 bad.. (I know that's only $40 a year if i keep it 30 years ;)... )

When I was a kid, we had an 8N with a Wagner loader that we had to hoist off the tractor with pry bars and come-a-longs, after unbolting the front subframe, pump, removing and reinstalling the fenders, and some huge u-bolts on the axle. And had to have a place to hang it... the reverse was worse, the pump never lined up right, couplers failed, it took half a day... So driving in and lining up 4 pins doesn't sound that hard to me.
 

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If your new tractor will be your new "mower".....Get a loader you can ditch in 5 minutes or less.

Mine stays on most of the time but when I want it gone..its easy.

Worst part of hooking it back up is cleaning the hydro couplers as my cap/plug thingys have departed and the fancy new color coded ones on the wall @ the JD dealer are ..of course..a different size:banghead:

Ones that fit mine are all black...I have color coded zip ties on the hoses to make it less painless.
 

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If your new tractor will be your new "mower".....Get a loader you can ditch in 5 minutes or less.

Mine stays on most of the time but when I want it gone..its easy.

Worst part of hooking it back up is cleaning the hydro couplers as my cap/plug thingys have departed and the fancy new color coded ones on the wall @ the JD dealer are ..of course..a different size:banghead:

Ones that fit mine are all black...I have color coded zip ties on the hoses to make it less painless.
I already found my yellow one in the lawn and put in my toolbox. I been thinking of cutting them all off and living the rings on, putting them in toolbox for safe keeping before I start to lose more.

I mowed my lawn with loader on yesrterday, and had to raise it all the way up for the tight corners and should have taken it off, but wanted to use it afterwards, so I got lazy and left it on. A lot easier to mow with it off. Also looks cool. Super riding mower!
 

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I already found my yellow one in the lawn and put in my toolbox. I been thinking of cutting them all off and living the rings on, putting them in toolbox for safe keeping before I start to lose more.

I mowed my lawn with loader on yesrterday, and had to raise it all the way up for the tight corners and should have taken it off, but wanted to use it afterwards, so I got lazy and left it on. A lot easier to mow with it off. Also looks cool. Super riding mower!
Mines like a race car with No Loader...Not really But Yes its a huge difference not bounceing whatever hundred pounds around and the manur....its quicker in the turns:laugh:. Don't have to watch the front so much around the trees.
I do however like to add a few weights to the front...I got No flat land .

Makes it look like a baby with the loader off.....I giggle ...what happened to my tractor:cheers:
 

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The D120's also have pinned on buckets vs. the quick attach (JDQA) feature, I didn't think they were even making them anymore?
 

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Worst part of hooking it back up is cleaning the hydro couplers as my cap/plug thingys have departed and the fancy new color coded ones on the wall @ the JD dealer are ..of course..a different size:banghead:

Ones that fit mine are all black...I have color coded zip ties on the hoses to make it less painless.
In the "Minor Annoyance" department (not exactly a Gear Grinder), I've noted that if you get even a micro-drop of hydraulic oil on those colored silicone caps, they are too slick to stay plugged to either the corresponding connector when the loader is removed, or each other when the loader is back on.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
The D120's also have pinned on buckets vs. the quick attach (JDQA) feature, I didn't think they were even making them anymore?
Not sure if they are still producing the D120, but the dealer does have some brand new for sale for about $1100 less than the 120R
(they might be leftover if they are as unpopular as they sound... )

The easy On/Off is certainly attractive to me, and as most say, it wont make me unhappy later. (i'm not gettin' younger..)

The JDQA isn't really a "plus" or justification of expense for me at all.
It's nice because it allows you to drop the bucket easy, but if I was looking for a loader with attachment flexibility, I'd REALLY want SSQA.

I don't know if they did that to keep us from using attachments that might be too hard on the machine or to keep things "Green".
I am hoping it was to "protect" customers, rather than to make their interface proprietary. People will hook up whatever fits...

If they had decided to put an industry standard QA system on, that would be a plus for me. If I have to adapt it, I can do that with the pin on stuff.

It's nice I have the luxury of time.
I will see what selling my loader brings... if it pays well, I will go 120R, if it doesn't I'll debate a refit, or D120.

I'd love to hear from some D120 owners...
 

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Thank you all for your advice :)

I worry in selling my loader.. and I liable if someone makes a mistake and gets hurt?
I guess I ask the buyer to sign a paper saying, "I know this is a home made, un-tested prototype, and I assume all risks"

I did the "Buy Once, Cry Once" in purchasing this tractor (Used up most of my "Cry")

I could buy a "Bush Hog"(which I really do want and would use a lot) for the difference in cost between the 120R and D120.

Can any of you that have owned the D120 comment on how bad it really is?
I know it "sounds bad"... but us it $1200 bad.. (I know that's only $40 a year if i keep it 30 years ;)... )

When I was a kid, we had an 8N with a Wagner loader that we had to hoist off the tractor with pry bars and come-a-longs, after unbolting the front subframe, pump, removing and reinstalling the fenders, and some huge u-bolts on the axle. And had to have a place to hang it... the reverse was worse, the pump never lined up right, couplers failed, it took half a day... So driving in and lining up 4 pins doesn't sound that hard to me.
From what I have heard in talking to others, it's about 1.5 to 2 hours to remove from the machine verses literally less than a minute. There have been many tractors through the 3xxx series where owners purchase them and then trade the entire machines in on a tractor with the 120R or H120 loader. Also, in the "e" series, the only model which comes with the Mid PTO (or is even an option) is on the 1023e. That's another reason why you often see the "e" series machines with the "D" loaders for sale used with virtually no hours on them.

I would bet I have seen at least 2 dozen machines this past year for sale with less than 50 hours on them. When you ask the owners, they often under estimated their need for the Mid PTO as without it, it eliminates all front driven PTO implements and the only alternative for front driven is the Hydro pack and that's as much as the tractor costs. Or they indicated they found they wanted to be able to remove the loader for some uses and the D series loader was much harder to remove than they understood.

The question as to whether it's $1,200 bad is a personal judgement. I know I wouldn't want to have saved $1,200 in exchange for the "D" series loader. Having a Pin on bucket limits your other implement options as they will also have to be "Pin On" and most use the John Deere Quick Attach mounting.

You are spending more to buy a John Deere than say a Kioti, Mahindra, etc. so you see the extra value in the John Deere brand. I would look at the 120R or H120 loader the same way. Also, the $1,200 breaks down to $20 per month over a 60 month period at 0% interest. Only you can make the decision about whether its worth $1,200 to you.

As far as your liability in selling the loader, I would prepare a disclosure which effectively makes the following points;

-"The home made built front lift device, here after referred to as "the loader" on the 318 has not been professionally engineered or tested for any specific use nor has it been determined as suitable for the machine to which it is attached. Therefore, the buyer and all subsequent users of the equipment assumes all responsibility for any and all uses of the equipment. The seller is making no representations or warranties of any kind regarding the performance, suitability, the safety, the capabilities of and any and all use of the tractor and or loader or any combination of the two. The buyer understands that the loader on the machine may cause the machine to respond differently and unpredictably than without the loader. The buyer also understands that the loader was not designed by John Deere and its use on this machine is not endorsed or approved by John Deere.

The buyer hereby indemnifies the seller of the equipment of all liability and responsibility and understands that their purchase of and use of the tractor and loader or combination of the two is entirely at their own risk. The tractor and all equipment is purchased where is, as is and without any warranty or guarantee of any kind to it's function, performance, operation, suitability or intended use. The buyer uses all equipment at their own risk and understands that using such equipment can be dangerous and unpredictable. They accept all risks for any and all equipment use by either themselves or anyone else who uses the equipment while under their ownership.

Buyer understands that it's their responsibility to always use care and prudent judgement when using any equipment. Buyer also agrees that the rear of the machine should contain proper and sage ballast methods to offset the impact of any additional weight of equipment or implements added to the front of the machine. Its up to the buyer to determine the proper amount of ballast and see that it's used at all times the front lift equipment is attached to the machine. Seller makes no representation as to the proper amount of ballast, the proper type of ballast or it's methods of attachment or mounting to the machine, all of which are the sole responsibility and discretion of the buyer.

The addition of any implements, attachments or other items to the machine which are not produced by and sold by John Deere for specific use on the equipment may result in damage to the machine, other equipment, any attachments and could render the machine inoperable. All equipment used is at the buyers sole risk and they agree to indemnify the seller of any and all liability as a result of the purchase of and any and all use of the equipment."

Basically, I would make it clear that they are on their own and you are in no way responsible. Also make sure to not "promote the use of the loader" by showing examples of projects you have completed, etc. If you demonstrate the loaders capabilities, you are making representations as to it's performance or suitability and its best to avoid doing that.......

Please note, the example of the waiver language written above is purely off the top of my head and is only an example of the points which you want to make in such a disclaimer. The language in the waiver isn't considered legal advice, nor is it a complete, proper and legal "waiver or disclosure". Always seek your own legal advice and make sure the documents you end up using or the language utilized in your actual written documents complies with your areas laws and requirements. The above is only an example and is not meant to be legal advice nor is it intended to be used without the review and approval of your legal counsel.
 

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Not sure if they are still producing the D120, but the dealer does have some brand new for sale for about $1100 less than the 120R
(they might be leftover if they are as unpopular as they sound... )

The easy On/Off is certainly attractive to me, and as most say, it wont make me unhappy later. (i'm not gettin' younger..)

The JDQA isn't really a "plus" or justification of expense for me at all.
It's nice because it allows you to drop the bucket easy, but if I was looking for a loader with attachment flexibility, I'd REALLY want SSQA.

I don't know if they did that to keep us from using attachments that might be too hard on the machine or to keep things "Green".
I am hoping it was to "protect" customers, rather than to make their interface proprietary. People will hook up whatever fits...

If they had decided to put an industry standard QA system on, that would be a plus for me. If I have to adapt it, I can do that with the pin on stuff.

It's nice I have the luxury of time.
I will see what selling my loader brings... if it pays well, I will go 120R, if it doesn't I'll debate a refit, or D120.

I'd love to hear from some D120 owners...
There is no benefit to SSQA on a small compact tractor, since it weighs a lot more. There are MANY companies that make things to fit the JDQA, so you are not locked into JD stuff like you think.

I probably won’t change your mind as this is hotly debated often, but I wanted to set the record straight in this thread for others that may be reading.
 

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JDQA is simple, robust, and lightweight. Perfect for SCUTs. :good2:
 

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I have found money spent that makes things easier is well spent and soon forgotten. While money "saved" that makes things harder is always remembered as "not money saved", every time you do the job that could have been done an easier way.

I spent over $500 installing a single point coupler for my loader hose connections. I always think "well spent" every time I remove or install the loader. I liked it so much, both of my tractors have one.

For these size loaders I think a skid steer carrier is added weight that can not be justified.

So sell your 318 with the loader and buy other than the D 120 loader. OR keep the 318 for your loader work.

Print out Sulley's liability disclaimer and attach it to your loader with clear package tape. You should see the all the warning labels JD put on my loader. :laugh:
 

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Discussion Starter #19
As far as your liability in selling the loader, I would prepare a disclosure which effectively makes the following points;

-"The home made built front lift device, here after referred to as "the loader" on the 318 has not been professionally engineered or tested for any specific use nor has it been....... [/I]
Wow, SulleyBear,
Thank you so much for taking the time to think, share your knowledge, share all that work freely, and the time you took to type all of that.
I do believe I will add that to my bill of sale if I sell the loader.

And thanks to the rest of you gentlemen for your thoughts and opinions.
You've given great insights for me to consider.

I appreciate the knowledge and insights you guys shared about the JDQA vs the SSQA .. it is light and efficient for sure, and the SSQA is kinda heavy alone, without the implement...
The JBQA would be real easy for me to build onto any new implement i might want to make.

Part of me still wants to make mine fit the new machine...just because I can... and because I like to fab stuff. We'll see what the tractor looks like next to it.

I'll keep you posted as to which way i went soon.. The 1023e is at the dealer today, they are waiting to assemble the front hitch, mower kit, and get the turfs installed.. I should have it in hand on Thursday :)
This is exciting!
 

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Wow, SulleyBear,
Thank you so much for taking the time to think, share your knowledge, share all that work freely, and the time you took to type all of that.
I do believe I will add that to my bill of sale if I sell the loader.

And thanks to the rest of you gentlemen for your thoughts and opinions.
You've given great insights for me to consider.

I appreciate the knowledge and insights you guys shared about the JDQA vs the SSQA .. it is light and efficient for sure, and the SSQA is kinda heavy alone, without the implement...
The JBQA would be real easy for me to build onto any new implement i might want to make.

Part of me still wants to make mine fit the new machine...just because I can... and because I like to fab stuff. We'll see what the tractor looks like next to it.

I'll keep you posted as to which way i went soon.. The 1023e is at the dealer today, they are waiting to assemble the front hitch, mower kit, and get the turfs installed.. I should have it in hand on Thursday :)
This is exciting!
:bigthumb:don't forget to have the better loader installed at the same time. do it now and no looking back. leave the D loader sitting where its at.

u can read lots and lots of threads on here -where fellas built stuff for their loader attachments using the JDQA--NOW IF I HAD A SKID STEER-yeah i would want the other style for sure.

a lot better choices now in the yr of 2019 then was back in 2006 when i bought my 2520.
 
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