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After the post on oil changes and the great conversation it started I have another question concerning to owners manual, Dealership, and some talk I've seen/heard. The Hydro filter on the 1023e/1025r/1026r's. I've owned several Hydro driven tractors and most of them recommend Hydro fluid changes around 200-400 hours and an annual filter change and top off from the fluid loss whether it was time for the Hydro fluid change or not . I seen a post lately ( on GTT??? Can't remember for sure) that Deere is now recommending changing the Hydro filter ANNUALLY whether you do a fluid change or not now? I owned some Cubs that recommended the same thing so was wondering if this is feasible? And if so, isn't the filter BELOW the Hydro fluid level which would cause a lot of fluid loss during the filter change? Thoughts??
 

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200 hrs fluid/filter OR annually for those who don’t put that many hours on their tractors.


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Annual change regardless of hours is excessive.

Oil sitting in a engine/transmission does not go bad.

I know some will mention moisture absorption in the oil.

The amount of moisture absorbed while sitting is minuscule. Especially in a heated garage or a dry climate.

If it makes you feel better, go ahead and knock yourself out, me, I'll not waste my time or money changing trans oil every year.

Changing the filter alone always seemed like a fools errand to me. The filter doesn't do anything for the amount of dissolved items in the oil and its not like the filter is getting clogged with larger particles preventing oil flow.

Stick to the 200hrs it'll be fine. I'll bet dollars to doughnut holes that there is a large percent of tractors out there that only get changes way over whats recommended and they still are running.

I think JD says to do so as a CYA.
 

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This is a first I am hearing about annual hydro change.

My manual says every 200 hours which still is a bit excessive in my opinion but I follow that anyway. It takes me 4 years to put 200 hours on my machine.
You going to start changing it every year now and spend 4 times the amount of time and money on it?
 

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200 hrs fluid/filter OR annually for those who don’t put that many hours on their tractors.
I think we're getting the engine and hydro oil and filters confused here. The only oil and filter that JD recommends changing on an annual basis is the ENGINE oil and filter.

On most SCUT/CUT the hydro oil/filter had an initial change at around 50 hrs and then every 200 hrs or so after that - always changing the oil and filter at the same time.

A recent change to this schedule has been with the Gen-2 2-series tractors which list that you can change the hydro oil and filters every 400 hrs or you can change the fluid only every 1200 hrs if you follow this process (note, they still throw a 3-year life cycle in there):

[For Gen-2 2-series tractors]
Transmission oil can be changed every 1200 hours or 3 years if the following requirements are met:


  • Use John Deere Hy-Gard™ or Lo-Vis Hy-Gard oil.
  • Suction and transmission filter are both changed every 400 hours.
  • Perform oil-scan of transmission oil every 400 hours or once per year.
But, for the 1-series it has always been hydro oil AND filter AND suction screen every X-hours.
 

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I don't see anything annually in my manual regarding hydro filters.

On the interval chart in my book:

Annually:

Check coolant.
Clean radiator and oil cooler fins.
Replace fuel filters.
Check and service air filters.

That's it.
 

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Pardon my ignorance here. Other than the hydro oil being fried from overheating, or water-solids contaminating it, what can go wrong with it that it requires changing at 200 hours. Most manuals I've seen on all types of JD tractors in the past say change at 500 hours or after an event like a system overhaul or internal parts replacement.

However I do think that changing the filter at least at 200 hours is a good idea. While it would be very rare that you would clog a filter to the point of a no flow condition, the contaminants if any could impede flow. Anyway, most filters are made with a BY-Pass valve so that if they are blocked, the oil will still pass thru them so you don't cook the system. In the end, I think what ever makes you feel good is the right answer to this.
 

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Pardon my ignorance here. Other than the hydro oil being fried from overheating, or water-solids contaminating it, what can go wrong with it that it requires changing at 200 hours. Most manuals I've seen on all types of JD tractors in the past say change at 500 hours or after an event like a system overhaul or internal parts replacement.

However I do think that changing the filter at least at 200 hours is a good idea. While it would be very rare that you would clog a filter to the point of a no flow condition, the contaminants if any could impede flow. Anyway, most filters are made with a BY-Pass valve so that if they are blocked, the oil will still pass thru them so you don't cook the system. In the end, I think what ever makes you feel good is the right answer to this.
I assume you are looking at larger tractors or different equipment. Almost all JD lawn & garden, SCUT and CUT tractors have a 200-250 hr hydraulic fluid change interval. Exceptions to that are the new Gen-2 2-series and newer 3-series which is 400 hrs and some of the commercial 900-series ZTR machines which are 500 hrs.

Having said that, I've changed hydraulic fluid twice in my X500 and once in the 2720 and each time the fluid was as clear and clean as water. So I agree that is most cases, at the recommended change interval the fluid has not reached end of life.
 

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If you look at this issue from the other side, what would YOU recommend as general service guidelines to all tractor owners?

Basically, they are telling people what I think is a reasonable "either / or" at xxx hours or annually. After all, the threshold has to be drawn somewhere. Do you HAVE to change it annually? Of course not. Truth is, you don't have to change it all, but its certainly in the machines long term interest to change the fluid and filter when needed. But how does the average person determine "When its needed?" Simple answer, they can't make such a determination so instead, they attempt to follow either some suggested interval or one which they self impose.

I just had this discussion with a neighbor on Sunday who is a Quality engineer in the appliance industry. He has an air cooled Cub Cadet, maybe mid 20's in HP and a 40"(ish) deck. I don't know or frankly care enough about Cub products to know models, specs, etc.

He has had it now for nearly 4 years. He told me "My mower is about to hit 300 hours and I am changing the engine oil for the first time. Anything more often seems unnecessary to me". I was quite surprised to hear this was the first oil change, but it's his to do with as he sees fit.

Plus he made a comment insisting "synthetic oil in a small engine is a fools waste of money".:dunno::unknown:

The discussion came up because another neighbor across the street from him blew up the engine in his D140 Deere. Cylinder number 2 threw a rod. He kept commenting basically implying it was a "brand issue" and I wasn't biting on the bait. I simply said "Each of us need to care for our equipment in a manner which we feel is best."

I personally think his approach to his mowers service is a horrible idea for an air cooled, small gas engine. Especially to subject the engine to using the oil which endured the break in period for a period of nearly 4 seasons and 300 operating hours. But its his machine and he can do what he wants. In my opinion, If there is a machine which benefits from purpose designed, high quality motor oil, its small engines which use the oil for lubrication and supplementing the engine cooling. Specifically engines which don't have fully pressurized lubrication systems to distribute oil from the sump to the rest of the engine and valve train components. They also lack any internal cooling capabilities to stabilize the engines operating temperature, that a liquid cooled engine enjoys.

I have seen many L&G machines with 600 hours, 800 hours on their hydro fluid. It's not how I would treat my machines. But its a personal decision each of us get to make. The recommendations are simply a "middle ground" which they are trying to apply across a wide group of people. The recommended intervals are the best average advice for best average outcomes. How one uses their machine should dictates its practical service intervals. After all, we have owners with wide ranges of machine use frequency and severity.

One owners weekly mowing could be 10,000 sq feet of lawn where another owners weekly mowing could be 650,000 sq feet of lawn. An owners season could be 50 to 75 engine hours, which, I think that is pretty common from what I have seen here on GTT. Others like myself, are closer to 200 hours per machine, per season. For me, that means 200 hours on my zero turn mower and 200 hours on my 1025r.

I think the message mentioned by the OP about changing the filter annually, whether the fluid is changed or not is a message which got tangled up in the process somewhere along the line. The fluid loss alone with the filter located in the sump on many machines is going to necessitate replacing much of the fluid volume. Personally, I won't catch used fluid and reuse it under any circumstance, even after filtering it. The risk of contamination is just too high based upon the cost of new fluid in my opinion.

Look at what the manual says about greasing your machine. They suggest different lubrication frequencies for different lubrication points. How could one really accurately track such an effort? Bottom line, I Grease everything at the same time. If some fittings seem to be requiring more grease than others, perhaps grease everything a little more often. Whether that greasing interval is based upon machine hours, calendar months, seasons, Federal Reserve interest rate hike decision meetings, ice cream flavors of the month, whatever, pick an interval and modify as needed to keep the machine properly greased.


Bottom line, follow the advice which you think best suits your situation and which is consistent with how you want your machine to be maintained. Changing fluids and filters too often won't harm anything but lighten your wallet and produce more oil to be recycled and filters in the landfills.
 

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I think we're getting the engine and hydro oil and filters confused here. The only oil and filter that JD recommends changing on an annual basis is the ENGINE oil and filter.
You are correct, I was thinking the engine oil and filter. Even still, I agree with Stan, 200 hours on the hydro service is overkill.
 

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I assume you are looking at larger tractors or different equipment. Almost all JD lawn & garden, SCUT and CUT tractors have a 200-250 hr hydraulic fluid change interval. Exceptions to that are the new Gen-2 2-series and newer 3-series which is 400 hrs and some of the commercial 900-series ZTR machines which are 500 hrs.

Having said that, I've changed hydraulic fluid twice in my X500 and once in the 2720 and each time the fluid was as clear and clean as water. So I agree that is most cases, at the recommended change interval the fluid has not reached end of life.
To answer your question. Late 1980's small, mid & large frame utility tractors like 655-755-855 & 9 series. I don't know what is in the new manuals for all these sub compact & small frame tractors. Pardon me for saying this, but I would never own one of these new machines. The cost/benefit ratio just isn't there for me. Not speaking against the tractors, it's just not something I would invest my money in. Want to save green....get a different color.
 

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If you look at this issue from the other side, what would YOU recommend as general service guidelines to all tractor owners?

Basically, they are telling people what I think is a reasonable "either / or" at xxx hours or annually. After all, the threshold has to be drawn somewhere. Do you HAVE to change it annually? Of course not. Truth is, you don't have to change it all, but its certainly in the machines long term interest to change the fluid and filter when needed. But how does the average person determine "When its needed?" Simple answer, they can't make such a determination so instead, they attempt to follow either some suggested interval or one which they self impose.

I just had this discussion with a neighbor on Sunday who is a Quality engineer in the appliance industry. He has an air cooled Cub Cadet, maybe mid 20's in HP and a 40"(ish) deck. I don't know or frankly care enough about Cub products to know models, specs, etc.

He has had it now for nearly 4 years. He told me "My mower is about to hit 300 hours and I am changing the engine oil for the first time. Anything more often seems unnecessary to me". I was quite surprised to hear this was the first oil change, but it's his to do with as he sees fit.

Plus he made a comment insisting "synthetic oil in a small engine is a fools waste of money".:dunno::unknown:

The discussion came up because another neighbor across the street from him blew up the engine in his D140 Deere. Cylinder number 2 threw a rod. He kept commenting basically implying it was a "brand issue" and I wasn't biting on the bait. I simply said "Each of us need to care for our equipment in a manner which we feel is best."

I personally think his approach to his mowers service is a horrible idea for an air cooled, small gas engine. Especially to subject the engine to using the oil which endured the break in period for a period of nearly 4 seasons and 300 operating hours. But its his machine and he can do what he wants. In my opinion, If there is a machine which benefits from purpose designed, high quality motor oil, its small engines which use the oil for lubrication and supplementing the engine cooling. Specifically engines which don't have fully pressurized lubrication systems to distribute oil from the sump to the rest of the engine and valve train components. They also lack any internal cooling capabilities to stabilize the engines operating temperature, that a liquid cooled engine enjoys.

I have seen many L&G machines with 600 hours, 800 hours on their hydro fluid. It's not how I would treat my machines. But its a personal decision each of us get to make. The recommendations are simply a "middle ground" which they are trying to apply across a wide group of people. The recommended intervals are the best average advice for best average outcomes. How one uses their machine should dictates its practical service intervals. After all, we have owners with wide ranges of machine use frequency and severity.

One owners weekly mowing could be 10,000 sq feet of lawn where another owners weekly mowing could be 650,000 sq feet of lawn. An owners season could be 50 to 75 engine hours, which, I think that is pretty common from what I have seen here on GTT. Others like myself, are closer to 200 hours per machine, per season. For me, that means 200 hours on my zero turn mower and 200 hours on my 1025r.

I think the message mentioned by the OP about changing the filter annually, whether the fluid is changed or not is a message which got tangled up in the process somewhere along the line. The fluid loss alone with the filter located in the sump on many machines is going to necessitate replacing much of the fluid volume. Personally, I won't catch used fluid and reuse it under any circumstance, even after filtering it. The risk of contamination is just too high based upon the cost of new fluid in my opinion.

Look at what the manual says about greasing your machine. They suggest different lubrication frequencies for different lubrication points. How could one really accurately track such an effort? Bottom line, I Grease everything at the same time. If some fittings seem to be requiring more grease than others, perhaps grease everything a little more often. Whether that greasing interval is based upon machine hours, calendar months, seasons, Federal Reserve interest rate hike decision meetings, ice cream flavors of the month, whatever, pick an interval and modify as needed to keep the machine properly greased.


Bottom line, follow the advice which you think best suits your situation and which is consistent with how you want your machine to be maintained. Changing fluids and filters too often won't harm anything but lighten your wallet and produce more oil to be recycled and filters in the landfills.
Fascinating. Some of this stuff posted on this site just amazes me. Don't get me wrong on this because I put myself in the same league as the rest. What I'm getting at is this discussion you had over a cub cadet air cooled mower with your neighbor & his theory of when to do an oil change. What fascinates me is that people are so highly opinionated on this stuff. It almost becomes pointless to even discuss some of these subjects at all. It's the same with politics. You can say what you want but your not changing anyone's mind.

Here's one for you. When I worked for Westinghouse Lamp Division there was this electrical engineer who one day over lunch said he NEVER EVER replaced a spark plug in his engine. He believed this was a waste of money with no benefit. Did not believe that it affected performance or MPG. Ahu ?This was back in the day when a quality plug might get you 10-12,000 miles. This guy was in his fifties at the time & twenty years in the engineering dept. designing lamps like metal halide, high pressure sodium & aircraft landing lights on planes putting out 200,000 candle power to see the runway. I could only listen to him & say to myself "holy crap". I hope I never fly on a plane that has his landing light design.
 

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While 1 person may spend his time putting around cutting grass, there are going to be some that spend all their hours being ridden hard, post hole digging, backhoing, excessive lifting, etc. Im sure JD put the recommendations in there for the extreme user in mind to make sure you had adequate protection. Will your engine/trans blow up if you pass the hour mark by a little, probably not.

But my opinion (yep, we all have one) if I'm going to spend upwards of $30K for a new tractor with all the fixings, I wouldn't bat an eye to do a yearly service for roughly $150. My piece of mind is worth more than what amounts to taking the Mrs to a fancy restaurant. (although, she does make me take her there every so often, regardless of what my toys cost) :laugh:

PS, I do bring my used oil to a recycler and, Im that guy that still changes his truck engine oil every 3000 miles. Old habits die hard.
 

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Not to pile on....but since it's already lit... here's some pics of my maual. CR 2019 1025R. I clearly see a dot for 200 hours and annually.
I most be blind, I see a dot for 200 hrs but see nothing to do hydro annually

:dunno::dunno:
 

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correct you are. blind you are not. this thread has posts regarding both oil/filter (engine) and oil/filter ( hydro). the manual shows engine annually or 200. hydro 200 only. some confusion in earlier posts should be diminished. my intent was not to make it worse. as always hope it helps.
 

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I could see the first 200 hrs changing out the fluid for any anomalies like the gasket bits everyones been finding, but agreed on every 200 being overkill.. We run excavators and cats that only require filters every 500, and 1000 hrs on internal screens, but fluid changes only if something goes wrong internally. The internal filters are at the top of the hydro tank isolated in its own chamber, so minor fluid loss. That stuff lasts thousands of hours on equipment ran pretty good every day. Why we have to drain the pump to get to the screen on the 1025R is a question. I know its the lowest point but draining the whole fluid volume to clean a screen...
 

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My poor old neglected 13 year old 2305 with 880 hours doesn’t even have a manual or service table with dots. Somehow it’s surviving on oil changes about every 24 months and transmission service every four or five years. Clear as mud.
 

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