Green Tractor Talk banner

1 - 20 of 52 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
196 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have been battling with myself for about two weeks now on which tractor to get. The BX23S or the JD 1025r and just can't make a decision. I can get them at about the same price with 0% for 60 or 84 months. I then came across an older 2011 BX25 with 1100 hrs on it and with loader and backhoe. Need a mid mower for about 2k and interest is about 5%. Kinda talked myself out of it and back onto the new models again. I like the small options that are included on the JD, but the smoother hydraulics on the Kubota, bigger gas tank, all metal, and quick disconnects sound a little better. I wish JD would come out tomorrow with a match of the FEL quick connect and better system for the hoe and better hydraulics and they would probably have my money right now. Very tough decision!

2018 John Deere 1025r and Kubota BX23S Comparison:

Kubota BX23S:
Better smoother hydraulic loader control
Better hydraulic loader disconnect
Better hookup for backhoe
Fully made by Kubota, Engine, etc.
Heavier duty axles
1630 vs 1349
2120 vs 1576
Bigger gas tank
All metal
Hood opens sides along with top
Heavier at 2689 vs 2208 (excludes loader frame, so may be closer?)
Hoe Digging Depth 6'5" vs 6'2"
Radiator in back of engine compartment instead of front
Loader universal Quick Attach
Easier storage, smaller length and width

John Deere 1025R:
Slight better engine HP 23.9 (JD Brochure says 24.2) vs 23
PTO 18 vs 17.7
Slight better engine torque 40.7 vs 40
More comfortable in seating area/More room
Feels bigger and more stable
More lighting
Loader bucket level standard
Toolbox
Drive Over Auto Connect Mid Mower Deck
Hoe Stabilizer upright brackets
Better lift capacity with loader 754 vs 739 and 613 w/QA
Better loader breakout capacity
1823 vs 1407 and 1286 w/QA
1320 vs 987 and 901 w/QA
Better hoe swing arc 150 vs 140
Better Hoe Bucket digging force 2036 vs 1936
Better Dipperstick digging force 1187 vs 1171
So far the JD has been cheaper. $22,260 vs $22,900

https://www.kubotausa.com/docs/default-source/product-comparison-pdfs/bx80-competitive-comparison-specs.pdf?sfvrsn=4b61f734_0
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
929 Posts
I think we are all pretty biased, so I imagine most will say to go with the Deere. I would too.
BUT...make sure you sit on, and operate both tractors.
AND, when you go visit both tractors, ask to remove/attach the FEL and BH on each.

I think after you do that you will be able to make your decision.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
374 Posts
Spend some time on Orangetractortalk. The Kubota is a great tractor, but not perfect. It has weaker hydraulics than the BX25 (many owners use shims to increase hydraulic pressure, so much that there are ready made kits for it), the quick connect hydraulic manifold leaks, etc. It would be worth it to find out all of the good and bad, so that you are able to better compare.
I'm pretty active on OTT- it is a very friendly, subjective forum. You will get a fair assessment of the 23s.

Kubota builds a gazillion BX's per year- I would love to see the numbers. I believe that they sell more BX's than all other manufacturers are selling, combined. Again, it's a great tractor. But, not perfect or without need for improvements. And, I don't feel that it's better than a Deere- just different. Most opinions will boil down to preference, not superiority.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
165 Posts
I was tossed up between the 2 brands when I was looking also. What sealed the deal for me was the auto-connect for the MMM, and I did not like the idea of the pedals for forward and reverse on the BX series of tractors. Going forward is the same but I didn't like the idea of either having to put my toe under to lift it for reverse or picking up my foot to use my heel for reverse. I also like the way the hood opens on mine over the Kubota, and I think the throttle is placement is better on the JD (Seems more tucked out of the way instead of having a huge bar sticking out).

I do however like the ability to curl and lift on the FEL of the Kubota and wish that my JD was able to do that, but I just work around it.

Kevin.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,471 Posts
My father has a Kubota and it has a bazillion hrs on it. Been a good machine. I will say you can see every dent/ding because it is metal and the floorboards/other high rub areas aren't orange anymore because the paint has rubbed off the steel. Radiator still gets clogged up even though it's behind the motor. The JD will just clog up sooner and the plastic gives allot more and will return to it's original state. The plastic is green dyed so it won't rubbed off.

I'm sure others will chime in on some of the other things, but I have to get working. Good luck!:thumbup1gif:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,659 Posts
It's both the deal and the dealer

If the price is close and the tractors are pretty close, then it's time to really get a feeling for which dealer you want to work with long term. Are they stable, long term dealers? You may not ever deal with the salesman after the sale so how are the parts guys or ladies? Do they keep a good stock of parts or is everything ordered? What's the service department like?

I'd ask the salesman for the names of 2-3 customers who bought the same rig and give them a call. Did the delivery person take time to explain the tractor, how it use it and maintain it?

In short, which dealer will be there if you really need them? Even if you are a mechanic with a fully equipped shop, warranty work has to be done by the dealer. You hope you don't need a shop for many years but if you do, you want them to be competent, willing and able to get your machine back up and running in short order.

Treefarmer
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
778 Posts
I went with Deere because there are 4 Deere dealers within a 40 mile radius of me with plenty of stock to try out. There is one rinky dink Kubota dealer with nothing to look at less than 10 miles away.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Had the same decision this summer.

Good luck, I'm sure you will be happy with either one. I settled on the JD because of 3 things. 1st: The Kubota had a high pitch whine in the hyd. pump. I tried 3 different tractors and they all had that same whine. 2nd: If you bought the backhoe, the Kubota seat changed and was not nearly as comfortable as the JD tractor seat. I figured I would use the backhoe very few hours in comparison to the hours I would be using the tractor and didn't want to sacrifice with the seat comfort. 3rd: I didn't like the Kubota treadle petal on the Kubota.

I already own a Kubota M5040 and really like it, just to big to drive around in our barns because of the size. I'm really impressed with the work I can do with the little JD. I really wanted the Kubota for the loader universal Quick Attach as I already had attachments for my Kubota tractor. Now that I have both, I really like the JD setup better. Easier for me to see as I attach different options.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,170 Posts
If the price is close and the tractors are pretty close, then it's time to really get a feeling for which dealer you want to work with long term. Are they stable, long term dealers? You may not ever deal with the salesman after the sale so how are the parts guys or ladies? Do they keep a good stock of parts or is everything ordered? What's the service department like?

I'd ask the salesman for the names of 2-3 customers who bought the same rig and give them a call. Did the delivery person take time to explain the tractor, how it use it and maintain it?

In short, which dealer will be there if you really need them? Even if you are a mechanic with a fully equipped shop, warranty work has to be done by the dealer. You hope you don't need a shop for many years but if you do, you want them to be competent, willing and able to get your machine back up and running in short order.

Treefarmer
Once again, my friend Tree Farmer NAILS It. The dealer is a HUGE ISSUE. You will need the dealer at some point and a good dealer is extremely important in the positive tractor ownership experience, regardless of brand.

As far as things like the larger fuel tank, after you spend the amount of time on either machine which will run the tank empty, you will need to be getting off the machine to stretch your legs and move out of the seating position. My 1025R burns about a gallon per hour of fuel, sometimes a little less such as when plowing snow and no PTO use and lower RPM operating speed. In those instances, it will burn about .7 to .8 gallons of fuel per hour. After 6 or 7 hours of continuous use, you will be ready to change positions and add some fuel.

The after the sales service is incredibly important. I fortunately have a great dealer and a great relationship with my salesman (who has become a friend as a result of our dealings) and the service tech who handles my machine has been OUTSTANDING. Things happen. When you need the dealer, you want them to be responsive and handle your issues.

A close friend of mine was looking for a 45 HP tractor. He looked at Deere, Kubota, Mahindra, LS and a few others. He ended up going with Mahindra because of the price and their pitch about their warranty. He has had nothing but regrets. When it came time for his first oil change and hydro fluid change, the dealer didn't even stock the filters and had to order them. He was without his machine for 8 days for a simple fluid change. That's unacceptable. As far as their legendary warranty, despite several issues which should have been warrantied, the dealer is always finding a way to "wiggle out of" filing a warranty claim and ends up charging the customer. Dealership quality and strength and the lack of either has turned my friends ownership experience into a bad one.

I would have to say both Deere and Kubota are great machines. Personally, I do not like the Kubota "treadle pedal" operation and find it very uncomfortable, especially when you are taller / larger. Getting on and off the machine, I was constantly stepping on some part of the pedal to get positioned on the machine seat. After the dealer quality, the ergonomics of the machine operation are a major concern as what are little annoyances now, become deal breakers over time.........

Our local Kubota dealer is very marginal. In fact, I considered buying the Kubota dealership simply to turn it around and provide the type of dealership which their customers deserve. But I really don't want to tie up that much capital and frankly, I am looking for fewer things to do at this point in my life, not more. I don't have a problem with Kubota as a company and I feel they make a quality product. It's clearly superior to many of the Korean / Indian imports like LS, Mahindra, Kioti, etc. I would say the Kubota and Deere are the top two products in their category in this SCUT product range.

Deere is very, very good about attachments and implements as well as accessories for their machines to make them as user friendly and valuable to their customer. They cover a very wide swath of what consumers desire. Their parts departments do an excellent job at inventory and parts access for machines new and old. I have a 23 year old Deere I bought new and I have had one experience where they didn't have a critical part I needed. But again, much of this is on the strength of the Dealer and their commitment to local customer service and satisfaction.

Many SCUT owners end up with after market accessories to improve their ownership experience, such as the single hydraulic connection ports and other such items to meet their needs. This is a very robust marketplace with a lot of great products and accessories for both Kubota and Deere. Much of these product offerings and uses are found through places like this website and forum threads. Tractor owners love to talk about their tractors and show creative ways to use their machines to improve their lives. Either way, Orange or Green, you will be making a purchase which will enrich your life. I would boil my decision down to the actual ergonomics and operation of the two machines and the strength of the local dealer.

Good luck with your decision and purchase. Let us know, either way, if you would........We like to know how these situations turn out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Hi I'm a FNG here too. Like you I have been looking at subcompacts, IMHO the deal breaker for the BX is using your heel to reverse. I have operated many TLB's and wheel loaders and other equipment over the years and I was running a BX on a job and my leg started to hurt from using the reverse. I found the JD forward and reverse a lot more ergonomic when you need to change directions a lot such as running the loader. Parts availability is another consideration also. And lastly when you use your $ Green to buy a Green tractor the money stays in the USA not sent overseas to a foreign country:usa
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,864 Posts
Seems like youve got a a conundrum for sure!

Personally, orange is my favorite color, by a wide margin, but when it comes to tractors, I bleed green.
Now, when I went shopping, I made a ton of comparisons.
I personally found the Kioti to be a better value than the Kubota, and the little Kubota didnt really compare too well with the 1025R.
The best deal going is the Massey GC1720. If you are out to save a buck, thats the one to buy. It has its issues though, and theres a reason its so cheap.

I can tell you that when looking at specs alone, you have to be REAL careful to look at the same specs. Weight for instance. You list a pretty large difference. The tractor itself is only about #150 heavier. Wheres the other weight come from?
I cant comment too much on the others without making this a two page post, but the 260B backhoe connects/disconnects easier than anything Ive ever seen. It really doesnt get any easier. Not sure how Kubota could possibly be easier to remove/reinstall, or better attached, as the frames are now heavier to account for this.

As to controls, and their smoothness, is this a personal observation or just what youve read? I ask because smooth is more from the operators feel at the controls after getting used to them. In other words, even the worst controls in the world can be smooth to a guy thats used to them. Just something to consider, though I dont consider the controls on the Deere to be not smooth at all.

Metal Vs Plastic material isnt a great point either way. Plastic holds up to small impacts better. Doesnt rust.
Metal can be repainted easier should the paint fade down the road. Plastic is much harder to refinish.

One thing about the hood too, I prefer the setup on the 1025. That big hood on the Kubota, and others, can get in the way when its up depending on what you are working on.
On the Deere, two pins and both side covers are off, and you have excellent access to anything in the engine compartment.
Having worked on a LOT of stuff over the years, not having to work around stuff is worth an awful lot to me.
That said, a guy could also remove the entire hood on the Kubota, surely it cant be that hard to do if necessary.

The single biggest negative to me with the Kubota is that darn pedal they use for the hydro.
Its the most used thing on the tractor and the most uncomfortable for me. Make SURE you sit on one and drive one around before you decide thats what you want.

Once you get past all that, the dealer should be your deciding factor. Good service from them is imperative. Id say excellent service is after reading some of the stories on here, but thats across the board. All brands have awful dealers and great dealers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
968 Posts
It’s pretty sad that service department is a major concern when buying a brand NEW high dollar tractor. One of the main reasons for buying a NEW tractor is so it don’t need fixing. I got sick of fixing the old equipment most every time I used it. It was time to replace it and stop having to fix it.

When I buy a new car or truck the service department is not even a consideration. Why should expectation of a NEW tractor be any different.

Seems like it’s become like medical coverage.....expensive, wait in line, and something we don’t really want or have to deal with.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,758 Posts
what sold me was the two pedals the treadle pedal seemed awkard to me. Granted I have a heal toe shifter on my motorcycle but that I just hit monetary to shift to hold the treadle pedal down was tough to hold constantly for reverse. Also the ease of removing the MMM and FEL sold me. has farhas the Kobota engine versus the Yanmar both are great motors. good luck with your choice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
196 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
It’s pretty sad that service department is a major concern when buying a brand NEW high dollar tractor. One of the main reasons for buying a NEW tractor is so it don’t need fixing. I got sick of fixing the old equipment most every time I used it. It was time to replace it and stop having to fix it.

When I buy a new car or truck the service department is not even a consideration. Why should expectation of a NEW tractor be any different.

Seems like it’s become like medical coverage.....expensive, wait in line, and something we don’t really want or have to deal with.
Yea, I agree! It is something to take note of, but sad. That is the exact reason why I want to buy new is to not have issues for a while. I have a White GT-1855 from 1994 and it has been great. Very little problems with it. It just scares me as the engine is known to blow up with the rod going through the side and it is getting old and hard to find parts for. The deck wheels are worn out, the engine has a lot of hour on it. etc. The JD dealer will give me 1k on trade and I think that is a good deal. And I need a loader and backhoe to do stuff around my new house to clean things up, so that is the main reason for looking for a new one.

I think both dealers are about the same in the parts department. The Kubota dealer, I absolutely despise the owner. (Red headed female with an attitude) I'm trying to not let that get in my decision making, but hard not too. The sales guy is nice and actually tried to help me out on price and even showed me a used one. But I think with the 0% and price being so close, I should just go for a new one and then I know the history.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Herminator

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
563 Posts
It’s pretty sad that service department is a major concern when buying a brand NEW high dollar tractor.

When I buy a new car or truck the service department is not even a consideration. Why should expectation of a NEW tractor be any different.
I have to surmise that you have been one of those fortunate ones that have bought a new vehicle where they had a great service department. Maybe that works where you live but here in north Jersey, educated people know which dealers have the best prices but, which dealerships to bring their vehicles to be serviced. They are typically not the same.

The sad truth is, dealerships are out for one thing, to turn a profit. Which means that while they do have their experienced, well paid mechanics on staff, they also have the new guys who are the ones that typically do the fluid changes, the new vehicle prep and alot of times, the warranty work. So yes, plotting out where your new tractor is going to eventually spend a little time to me is a MAJOR factor and Id rather go out of my way to find the best service department vs saving a few bucks and getting the cheapest or best deal I could find.

The peace of mind that my vehicle or tractor is a priority to the dealership is worth more than a few bucks in the grand scheme of things. :hide:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
178 Posts
Quick attach bucket and a drive over mower deck trumps a lot of extras Kubota offers. Both great machines, but when I can go from loader work to mowing in 5 minutes or less, that makes the deal. I looked at both machines heavily, and that was the deal maker for me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
968 Posts
I have to surmise that you have been one of those fortunate ones that have bought a new vehicle where they had a great service department. Maybe that works where you live but here in north Jersey, educated people know which dealers have the best prices but, which dealerships to bring their vehicles to be serviced. They are typically not the same. .......................:hide:

I think you missed the point. I buy new so I do not expect to be in for service fixing BRAND NEW tractor. I don’t expect new should need repairs. Maintaince I do myself. Having a piece of equipment tied up waiting for service is not even a consideration for me. That’s why I’m not particularly interested in the service department.

Now if one is the type that does not even change the oil that is a whole different ball park. Dependence for service would be major major. IMHO persons in an equipment environment would do more themselves.:unknown:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,170 Posts
Quick attach bucket and a drive over mower deck trumps a lot of extras Kubota offers. Both great machines, but when I can go from loader work to mowing in 5 minutes or less, that makes the deal. I looked at both machines heavily, and that was the deal maker for me.
Kubota clearly doesn't have the "change over" ease which the R series Deere compact tractors enjoy. That's one of the reasons why the E series compacts are priced lower than the R, especially when you get into the 3 series and larger machines. The "D" series FEL on the Deere machines is a project to remove verses the 102R loader and it's predecessor.

When people considering a new machine haven't experienced the incredible ease and efficiency of the Auto Connect Mid mount mower and the 120R series loader, they don't know what they are missing. When it's very easy to either add or remove the loader or the same with the MMM, you end up using the machine more often for even more tasks.

Any customer considering the Deere and the Kubota should have the dealer demonstrate the process necessary to fully remove the front end loader from the machine as well as re attach it. The customer should also keep in mind the dealer has done it many, many times and will be much faster at it than the customer will be until they have owned the machine for some time.

Same with the mid mount mowers. Have the Kubota dealer completely drop the MMM deck and drive the tractor forward 20 feet and then circle around and hook both the MMM and the FEL back up to the machine.

With the Deere tractors with the R series loader and the Auto Connect deck, adding or removing the front end loader or the MMM will be a 60 second project each time. Such is not the case with Kubota.

Many new tractor owners underestimate just how often they would be adding or removing the FEL or MMM. When its very easy to do, it makes the tractor much more useful for many more projects.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
I was in the same boat a few weeks back. For me I was also considering the LS MT125 and the Yanmar SA324. I had also considered going the used route but quickly ruled it out due to the financing available on new tractors (and implements!).

After agonizing for a few weeks I settled on getting the 1025R. The decision process came down to a few factors:
1. Price
2. Available financing
3. Dealer network / locations

For the LS, the dealer network was pretty weak and I had only a single dealer that was within a two hour drive. The cash prices were also pretty great (under $17k for tlb w/ mmm).

The Yanmar SA324 is a more capable tractor that weighs more and seems to have more capable hydraulics. Unfortunately the pricing ended up being too high for me locally. I ended up getting my 1025R TLB, with box blade, tiller, third function hydraulics and grapple for the same price I was quoted for a SA324 TLB w/ mmm.

When I first started looking I had actually not even looked at the 1025R because I assumed it would be too expensive. It turned out to actually be priced pretty equivalently to the BX23S for me locally.

Ultimately I ended up going with the 1025R over the BX23S because it’s slightly larger, doesn’t have the vulnerable transmission fan, has a better drive over deck and ended up being slightly cheaper with the implements I wanted.
 
1 - 20 of 52 Posts
Top