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Our builder just had his driveway paved with ground up road millings. Looks nice and is a good bit cheaper than asphalt. The put it down with a paver then compacted it with a roller.

I'm just wondering if anyone here has done this and if so how it has held up.

I know that adding diesel fuel to the mix afterwards is supposed to help lock everything in.




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I see you are in PA. I am near Harrisburg and had my driveway compacted with millings several years back. It was great. The millings packed down hard and made the driveway almost like pavement. Over time they sort of loosened up as a result of snow plowing and a couple years ago I was planning to have an additional parking area done and part of the original driveway recoated. When I called the place that did it originally they said they were no longer able to get millings in PA because the State decided to classify it as hazardous material.

At the time I seem to recall others on this forum reporting that they had a similar problem in their area.

So I'm back to plain 'ole crushed stones.

Has something changed in PA making them available again?
 

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My 900' drive is topped with millings. Base is 2" then ca6 and then the millings. I had it tailgated, spread it level with the tractor and then let it bake in the hot July sun. That was two years ago. We had two bad spots that I repaired but that was due to water crossing the road. I'm going to have four more loads brought in this spring and build it up so that water doesn't pool. Hot weather helps the millings bond so I didn't have to do anything afterwards.

Here, in Central Illinois, it's about the same price as ca6 but way better. It's dusty in the dry summer, but so is gravel.
 

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I see you are in PA. I am near Harrisburg and had my driveway compacted with millings several years back. It was great. The millings packed down hard and made the driveway almost like pavement. Over time they sort of loosened up as a result of snow plowing and a couple years ago I was planning to have an additional parking area done and part of the original driveway recoated. When I called the place that did it originally they said they were no longer able to get millings in PA because the State decided to classify it as hazardous material.

At the time I seem to recall others on this forum reporting that they had a similar problem in their area.

So I'm back to plain 'ole crushed stones.

Has something changed in PA making them available again?
I didn't know that Pa. the state--classified them that way. 15 yrs ago u could buy them when a road was milled. but when i was working for this stone quarry in 2012 they had one of the biggest stock pile of them i have ever seen, several places in fact. won't sell to anyone. they was mixing them back into the black top mix to make new black top.
now this last summer our local fire department seemed to come across some milling's somehow:dunno::nunu: who-how they got them i don't know. someone had enough pull to get probably 20 tri-axle loads to do a road at their outdoor festival place.
back when u could get the millings, people had them put down, rolled if possible, the next summer they had it sprayed with some light tar, and gravel dust over the top then. that made it like brand new black top then.

jeepers--i wished i would of had the money back in the mid-80's to the early 90's as the PA. turn-pike was giving them away, if u had a way of hauling them, u could have what u wanted. just no:gizmo:back then.:dunno:

p.s. i was only a mile from the pike at our old place -yet to boot!!
 

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We had recycled asphalt for a driveway...never again due to the residual oil left in the stuff. It tracks in everywhere you don't want it.

I'm happy with the recycled concrete driveway I replaced it with. In our area it was the same cost and packed down just as good as the asphalt.

Just my $0.02.
 

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I expanded my driveway with 3/4 reclaim asphault this summer. Delivered by dump truck, i spread it with my tractor and rented a lawnmower sized compactor. Its initial finish was excellent. I was going to have it spray coated until i needed a roof. I wish i did as winter has loosened some small areas, and i scraped off a touch in one spot with the plow last storm. I may recompact it and seal it next year just to get more binder into it.





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Just to chime in - some years ago millings were the go-to for topping a gravel driveway. But as was said, they are now considered hazardous waste here and can't be used. Now I don't know if this is state wide (PA) or just because I live in the middle of a state forest. DCNR regulates a lot around here - like the townships are only allowed to use limestone when the top one of their roads. Working for the state all the rip-rap and #4's we used in drainage ditches has to be limestone.

It's a shame - used to be able to get it free from the paving contractors - makes one of the best toppings for a driveway. Once in a while I will see a big pile at a wide spot along the road after they had been milling - only to disappear a week later.
 

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Hot in-place Asphalt Recycling is also growing rapidly. It removes a ton of cost because you are not trucking the grindings and new materials every where.

They have a train of machines that heat and grind in two stages and the add a re-juvinator and potentially some fresh asphalt into the process and then the layer spreads the new surface and the rollers follow. You just keep the diesel, LP Gas tanks, and rejuvenator tanks full and the whole train just moves along. Any road base repairs have to be made ahead of the train.

You are seeing this more and more for secondary state roads and county, township roads.

HIPR.png
 

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Some EPA notes on why millings are supposed to now be controlled. So heating and putting back into asphalt not a problem or using where they end up sealed not an issue. But the dust is carcinogenic if left to blow.


E. ENVIRONMENTAL AND PUBLIC HAZARDS

The bitumen binder used in asphalt paving applications contains a relatively large concentration of a family of carcinogenic compounds which can pose serious human health and environmental concerns in certain circumstances such as when asphalt material is ground into very small particles that easily blow off of or wash from the surface. These compounds, known as polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) are specified as targeted pollutants by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (USEPA), and are present in asphalt at much higher levels than the criteria established by the DEP for general use in a loose fashion on land. Asphalt millings used alone without a paved top surface have the potential to significantly migrate from the roadway through the actions of water, wind, and physical displacement and possibly contaminate surrounding soils and/or surface water sediments. Traffic traveling on the unpaved asphalt millings would generate dust containing the compounds referenced above and the dust would be a major migration route of the millings to the surrounding environment.

F. BENEFICIAL USE OF ASPHALT MILLINGS

Several uses in of asphalt millings are fully appropriate in accordance with regulations for recycling and beneficial use and, therefore, millings may be used as follows below. The use of loose unbound asphalt millings on land and roadway surfaces without the placement of a paved top surface is not generally appropriate. Millings should not be used where runoff to surface water features would be possible in order to prevent sediment contamination. In addition, asphalt millings are not considered clean fill.
 

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Hot in-place Asphalt Recycling is also growing rapidly. It removes a ton of cost because you are not trucking the grindings and new materials every where.

They have a train of machines that heat and grind in two stages and the add a re-juvinator and potentially some fresh asphalt into the process and then the layer spreads the new surface and the rollers follow. You just keep the diesel, LP Gas tanks, and rejuvenator tanks full and the whole train just moves along. Any road base repairs have to be made ahead of the train.

You are seeing this more and more for secondary state roads and county, township roads.
Two of our county roads had this done this past summer. Everybody is waiting to see how it holds up. The finished product was really nice.
 

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Hot in-place Asphalt Recycling is also growing rapidly. It removes a ton of cost because you are not trucking the grindings and new materials every where.

They have a train of machines that heat and grind in two stages and the add a re-juvinator and potentially some fresh asphalt into the process and then the layer spreads the new surface and the rollers follow. You just keep the diesel, LP Gas tanks, and rejuvenator tanks full and the whole train just moves along. Any road base repairs have to be made ahead of the train.

You are seeing this more and more for secondary state roads and county, township roads.
The first time I saw an operation like that was running up through Connecticut. My first thought was "where are all the dump trucks?"
 

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I've had good luck with the concrete re-grind. It packs pretty well but slowly disappears into the clay and needs to be topped every 5 years or so.
 

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So heating and putting back into asphalt not a problem or using where they end up sealed not an issue. But the dust is carcinogenic if left to blow.
The only thing that absolutely positively can't give anyone cancer is being dead. :laugh:

I've had good luck with the concrete re-grind. It packs pretty well but slowly disappears into the clay and needs to be topped every 5 years or so.
How deep is your recycled concrete? Ours is 3" - 4" deep; but it is over the thin recycled asphalt driveway the builder dumped here. I haven't had to touch ours since I installed it in 2011 if I recall correctly.
 

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I've had good luck with the concrete re-grind. It packs pretty well but slowly disappears into the clay and needs to be topped every 5 years or so.
Once you get enough of the concrete re-grind packed, you will eventually have a good base and it won't sink anymore. No different than asphalt, if you put asphalt over a poor base, you will end up with cracks. Same with concrete.
 

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In PA, road millings (RAP) have been approved by the PA DEP for highway base and even overlay. PA Bulletin, Doc. No. 06-761 Of course this has to do with PA DOT approved projects that are very controlled.
I work in this business and I can tell you, road millings are still used all the time for highway base, berm reinforcement, pothole repair, and yes, even highway overlay. In the case of highway overlay and pothole repair, it is usually heated first and mixed with some fresh emulsion. This makes it pretty much like original asphalt. There is equipment built for the sole purpose of recycling RAP.
http://steppmfg.com/srm-10x120-asphalt-recycler-trailer-mounted/

Concerning using RAP in your driveway. It works good if you roll it with a good vibratory roller. The thing to remember, milled asphalt does not have any binder other than the emulsion that was put in the asphalt when it was originally put down. Unless you heat RAP, there is no way to reactivate this original emulsion. So, when placing cold RAP, it is essential to lay a reasonably thick layer (i.e. 3") and roll it so that it is compacted well. In this case, it will last several years but it will come loss over time.
Also, the emulsion in RAP will not bleed anymore than aged asphalt. After all, it is aged asphalt.

RAP is not tar and chipping. Tar and Chipping is a process where stone is spread, then a layer of emulsion (tar) is spread, then another layer of stone is spread and then it is all rolled. This is a highway maintenance process that many townships and counties use to extend the life of the road surface. Most of us hate the process because tarring and chipping always ends up with bleed through which makes an absolute mess on a vehicle and shoes if you walk on it. I have heard of people who have tarred and chipped driveways. It is a more cost effective option than asphalt but it surely isn't asphalt, and you will get bleed through. :thumbup1gif:
 

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Tar and chip

In PA, road millings (RAP) have been approved by the PA DEP for highway base and even overlay. PA Bulletin, Doc. No. 06-761 Of course this has to do with PA DOT approved projects that are very controlled.
I work in this business and I can tell you, road millings are still used all the time for highway base, berm reinforcement, pothole repair, and yes, even highway overlay. In the case of highway overlay and pothole repair, it is usually heated first and mixed with some fresh emulsion. This makes it pretty much like original asphalt. There is equipment built for the sole purpose of recycling RAP.
http://steppmfg.com/srm-10x120-asphalt-recycler-trailer-mounted/

Concerning using RAP in your driveway. It works good if you roll it with a good vibratory roller. The thing to remember, milled asphalt does not have any binder other than the emulsion that was put in the asphalt when it was originally put down. Unless you heat RAP, there is no way to reactivate this original emulsion. So, when placing cold RAP, it is essential to lay a reasonably thick layer (i.e. 3") and roll it so that it is compacted well. In this case, it will last several years but it will come loss over time.
Also, the emulsion in RAP will not bleed anymore than aged asphalt. After all, it is aged asphalt.

RAP is not tar and chipping. Tar and Chipping is a process where stone is spread, then a layer of emulsion (tar) is spread, then another layer of stone is spread and then it is all rolled. This is a highway maintenance process that many townships and counties use to extend the life of the road surface. Most of us hate the process because tarring and chipping always ends up with bleed through which makes an absolute mess on a vehicle and shoes if you walk on it. I have heard of people who have tarred and chipped driveways. It is a more cost effective option than asphalt but it surely isn't asphalt, and you will get bleed through. :thumbup1gif:
Tar and chip also is great for glass shops. I can't tell you how many times I've had a windshield chipped from stones coming off a newly "resurfaced" road. Stone chips are better than gravel but both will have some flyaway issues.

Treefarmer
 

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RAP is not tar and chipping. Tar and Chipping is a process where stone is spread, then a layer of emulsion (tar) is spread, then another layer of stone is spread and then it is all rolled. This is a highway maintenance process that many townships and counties use to extend the life of the road surface. Most of us hate the process because tarring and chipping always ends up with bleed through which makes an absolute mess on a vehicle and shoes if you walk on it. I have heard of people who have tarred and chipped driveways. It is a more cost effective option than asphalt but it surely isn't asphalt, and you will get bleed through. :thumbup1gif:
Oh how I wish they would do it that way in Illinois; oil first then the chips. Roller? The township has to have a roller to do that last final process. They must have missed that in the instructions.... And the oil mess around here in July is terrible. Because they don't roll, half the chips fly off the road as cars and trucks go down the roads.

But a lot of driveways here are done this way. My old farmhouse had a 1200' driveway and that's what I did fifteen years ago. Last year (we just sold it) there were parts that were still good after all those years. And I had no bleed through.
 

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Tar and chip also is great for glass shops. I can't tell you how many times I've had a windshield chipped from stones coming off a newly "resurfaced" road. Stone chips are better than gravel but both will have some flyaway issues.

Treefarmer
Just think of driving in stuff like that all winter every winter. The anti-skid they use here is close to the same size. Just about every time you pass a car coming the opposite way you get tinged either on the front end or windshield. Every spring I have at least a dozen chips to fill in on my white bumper with touch-up-paint.
 

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Our builder just had his driveway paved with ground up road millings. Looks nice and is a good bit cheaper than asphalt. The put it down with a paver then compacted it with a roller.

I'm just wondering if anyone here has done this and if so how it has held up.

I know that adding diesel fuel to the mix afterwards is supposed to help lock everything in.




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Adding a little diesel helps rejuvenate the oils for better binding but the practice is frowned upon by some. I had a chip and seal done with hot oil sprayed on the finished road and then a thin layer of 3/8" pea gravel placed on the oil and then rolled with this gizmo. That was about 20 years ago and I will be doing it again this year. Me and a few friends will do the work like the last time.
 

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