Water in diesel?

8651 Views 17 Replies 8 Participants Last post by jsasker007, Apr 11, 2012

maineuropa

Discussion Starter · Mar 1, 2012

Of course I was out snowblowing in the middle of this snowstorm. Tractor ran fine, then suddenly stopped. Let it sit a few moments then cranked and it started again, ran rough for a moment, then ran ok for about 2 more minutes, then same routine. Same again after that. Made it to the barn, took apart the fuel filter, no noticeable water. I did add diesel this am, possibly water could have been involved there. Any other thoughts on what could be going on? Fuses ok.
Running over to my neighbor's to add some conditioner.

955 with a fair amount of hours(meter was broke when I bought it). I have run the tractor for about 500 hours without this issue before.

George in Southern Maine with about 6 inchs and climbing...haha.

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Brian

· #2 · Mar 1, 2012

I am not thinking its water. You would have seen it in the fuel bowl if you had enough to stall the motor.

I might go more to a fuel pump or injection pump going out.

You could have also had a fuel line crack and add air to the line.

2365

· #3 · Mar 1, 2012

maineuropa said:
Of course I was out snowblowing in the middle of this snowstorm. Tractor ran fine, then suddenly stopped. Let it sit a few moments then cranked and it started again, ran rough for a moment, then ran ok for about 2 more minutes, then same routine. Same again after that. Made it to the barn, took apart the fuel filter, no noticeable water. I did add diesel this am, possibly water could have been involved there. Any other thoughts on what could be going on? Fuses ok.
Running over to my neighbor's to add some conditioner.

955 with a fair amount of hours(meter was broke when I bought it). I have run the tractor for about 500 hours without this issue before.

George in Southern Maine with about 6 inchs and climbing...haha.

I'd guess it's a fuel issue(?). I use to have a JD 655, the little brother of what you have. I always ran a cold weather diesel fuel mixture in mine and never had the problem you discribed. I recently bought a new 1026R which replaced my old 655. It's amazing what 20 years of development has accomplished. My old 655 was a major pain to start when it was cold without a magnet heater. This new one starts right off. Hopefully, adding the conditioner will clear up your problem. Good luck.

maineuropa

Discussion Starter · #4 · Mar 1, 2012

Brian said:
I am not thinking its water. You would have seen it in the fuel bowl if you had enough to stall the motor.

I might go more to a fuel pump or injection pump going out.

You could have also had a fuel line crack and add air to the line.

I am thinking that you are right since my fuel line needs replacing; the clean up and conditioner did not cure the problem: my separator is running dry..hence the run stop wait run sequence which continued after all the prior "fixes"...so I will replace the fuel line between the pump and the separator and see if the pump needs replacing. Thanks for the confirmation. More to follow.

Brian

· #5 · Mar 1, 2012

Yes, if your separator is running dry you have a lift pump issue or a leak in the line or connection. Let us know what you find.

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rcjohns

· #6 · Mar 2, 2012

You should test to see if you have air in the bleeder on the injection pump I suspect that you have a air leak on the suck side and I can tell you it does not take much of a leak. If this is the case your description of the problem is exactly like the a problem I had. All I had to do was tighten the hose clamps on the suck side hoses and WA LA the problem went away. If you have rubber hose connections on the suck side it could very easily be your problem.

maineuropa

Discussion Starter · #7 · Mar 2, 2012

I will check the "suck" side, except the hose looks real good on that side. I will examine it for leaks, etc. but I am idly wondering if my fuel pump linkage is not working...as if the pump is not being mechanically actuated by the engine running...it's just feeding fuel on gravity feed and/or my manual pumping...so that might explain the running okay for the contents of the separator run dry? Don't these injectors need some substantial pressure to operate? Or could they run out in about 30 seconds as it has been doing?

rcjohns

· #8 · Mar 2, 2012

My suck side fitting was a rubber hose that also look quite good but where it attached to the stem the clamp was not tight enough and when the pump drew fuel it got easier to get air and the separator went dry two turns on the clamp and it filled immediately Now if you had access to a cheap electric pump you will solve the problem as well but you still need to make sure there are everything is tight suck side. And it only take enough pressure to deliver fuel to the injection pump to run but obviously it would be better to have rated pressure. The injection pump converts to high pressure on its own.

maineuropa

Discussion Starter · #9 · Mar 3, 2012

Running again

Interestingly enough my leak was on the tank return line...just enough to make the pump suck futilely somehow...anyway I replaced both hoses and once it started it ran fine.
I haven't done a post mortem on the hoses for leaks, but the return line was the one wet with diesel. Just real glad I was able to effect the repair for $8 worth of hoses, rather than $125 worth of fuel pump...which incidentally I was not convinced I was going to be able to remove without a 10mm crowsfoot wrench as it was nearly inaccessible( front side nut at about 4 o'clock). I hope I don't have to ever try to replace that pump.

Of course all this cranking meant the end of my battery positive connection AGAIN...

Thanks for all your help...Brian and RC: good call without being here

dieselshadow

· #10 · Mar 3, 2012

Glad to hear you got it running:thumbup1gif: I've had lots of fuel line rot out from the inside out due to this new ULSD fuel. Just make sure your new line is rated for diesel fuel:good2:

maineuropa

Discussion Starter · #11 · Mar 4, 2012

Arrrgh!

Okay, tractor ran fine for over an hour yesterday(Friday). Saturday the tractor ran out of fuel again under heavy load. This would seem like the fuel pump is right on the edge of providing not enough fuel and then it runs out and stalls. The other interesting aspect of this: I can pump fuel manually with a priming lever as part of the pump. Priming the pump yesterday(Saturday) the pump could not fill the glass bowl...you could see it running down the edges of the glass bowl, then it would just disappear. ??? Now after I got the tractor running Friday, it eventually filled that separator bowl, especially after throttling up and then down. I have to believe that the diaphram of the fuel pump is possibly toast(or at least having some small leak), but also wondered if I should pull the fuel gauge assembly at the fuel tank and check it for leaks. I say this because a suction/blow test with the hose lines was not totally reassurring as it did not uniformly blow bubbles on the suction line as it should, right?
Any other thoughts before I pony up on the $125 fuel pump?

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dieselshadow

· #12 · Mar 4, 2012

Once the glass bowl is filled, does air reappear while running? If so, you still have an air leak somewhere:think:

rcjohns

· #13 · Mar 4, 2012

I would say if you feel restriction when blowing backwards you have a screen that is impaired in the tank. If it is possible to remove the line and put it in a can of fuel and see if the problem goes away. Also take the line off at the out end of the filter and see if you have a good stream of fuel when cranking the engine.

Have you blown trought the filter it should easily clear but it won't taste good.

jd110

· #14 · Mar 4, 2012

I agree with rcjohns, I think you have a restricted suction screen in the tank. Item #11 is the screen. If it is choked up, you may want to remove the tank and flush it out also.

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maineuropa

Discussion Starter · #15 · Mar 5, 2012 (Edited)

Ongoing fule issue

jd110 said:
I agree with rcjohns, I think you have a restricted suction screen in the tank. Item #11 is the screen. If it is choked up, you may want to remove the tank and flush it out also.

Well, since the pump costs $100 plus, I will pull the fuel tank assembly and check the short hose for leaks and the screen for clogging. I am wondering if the short hose is rotted and leaking as this problem returned after the tractor ran the fuel level back down... stay tuned.

Pulled fuel tank assembly: rubber tube snapped off at the pipe...no screen etc. Pulling tank to retrieve "space junk" at bottom of tank...wrestling with the throttle cable which holds the tank captive...

maineuropa

Discussion Starter · #16 · Mar 8, 2012

Wrap up

As I posted in a cross thread regarding fuel filters, my problem turned out to be that the 7 inch rubber hose attached to the strainer in the fuel tank had broken off at the metal tube of the sender/fuel assembly inside the tank. The tractor ran fine as long as the tube was covered with fuel..around about 1/3rd tank was when it stopped.
Repairs amounted to possibly the cheapest Deere part known: 60 cents for the 7 inch tubing. (Maybe we should have a thread contest). Of course, there were "other" expenses incurred before this: I replaced both the suction and return hoses to the fuel tank ($9.00), plus the battery and the positive battery cable. ($75 battery, $50 cable).

I have a real issue with the term "Maintenance Free" on a battery that functions identically to the older "non maintenance free" ones: they both all have 6 cells with filler caps that need routine monitoring for fluid levels. My dead 5 year old NAPA battery was dry at all 6 plates and spent a cold freezing night with little charge. That was the end of that battery... no amount of charging was reviving that battery. Maybe "maintenance free" simply means use for 5 years and replace...live and learn..

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RandyM

· #17 · Mar 8, 2012

I too learned a while back that maintenance free is marketing hype applied to all batteries. The only ones that are truely maintenace free are the completely sealed types. Glad you are all squared away and running again. :thumbup1gif:

jsasker007

· #18 · Apr 11, 2012

Hi everyone--first post for me.Are there any other fuel screens in-line?The reason i ask is that your problem sound alot like an issue i had with a dozer not get enough fuel and it ended up being an in-line screen that actually sat in one of the banjo bolts on the fuel line on the in side of the pump.

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