Green Tractor Talk banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
448 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I was curious as to what was in the water separator on my 2032R so I removed it. Here's what I found. The red ring was in the bottom of the bowl with the strainer sitting on top. I suspect it was assembled incorrectly. Can anyone verify?

Wtr_Sep.png

In a two year old post by jgayman, he writes:
Actually, there is a filter inside the water separator. In the 4105 operator's manual there are instructions for replacing this filter. It is odd that JD wants you to discard the filter each time as it is just a course plastic screen that can easily be cleaned. They have the same instructions in other tractor model manuals. What is really strange is that in the 2720/2032R operators manual they ONLY tell you to replace the fuel filter that is inside the water separator. There is no mention of the spin-on fuel filter. Weird, eh?
I can confirm that the 2025R/2032R manual is the same. However the technical manual for the 2032R (that I was lucky enough to purchase before Mother Deere developed the $evere fondne$$) has better information in my opinion. Pay particular attention to paragraph 3, which I'm about to go do.

Wtr_Sep_TM.png

One last question. Will water in dyed Diesel take on some of the dye and look red? Or just clear. If I knew that, I may have not taken it apart Thanks for any incites and answers.
 

·
Senior GTT Super Slacker
Joined
·
38,158 Posts
I think your parts seem backwards. :dunno:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Roger47

·
Registered
Joined
·
448 Posts
Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
I think your parts seem backwards. :dunno:
In the "before" or "after" photo?

Never mind. I'm gonna go with wrong from the dealer and right how I have it now. Makes way more sense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gizmo2

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,981 Posts
Funny, the manual does not show the collar at the bottom of the stem that yours has.
If the float was under it there would not be much room to rise and nothing to keep it centered?
I think I agree with you on how it should be.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
448 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Funny, the manual does not show the collar at the bottom of the stem that yours has.
If the float was under it there would not be much room to rise and nothing to keep it centered?
I think I agree with you on how it should be.
Also, the Operator's Manual does not mention bleeding the system after replacing the sediment bowl. It just says the system is self bleeding, open the valve and to crank the engine. The Technical Manual shows the location of the bleed screw and explains how to do it. (Step 5 of the TM section I clipped into the original post.)

My 214 Manual from 1978 is chock full of useful information. Seems the current manuals are chock full of useless info like "don't drive over any small dogs or children." Stuff that used to just be common sense. :banghead:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
13,123 Posts
Also, the Operator's Manual does not mention bleeding the system after replacing the sediment bowl. It just says the system is self bleeding, open the valve and to crank the engine. The Technical Manual shows the location of the bleed screw and explains how to do it. (Step 5 of the TM section I clipped into the original post.)

My 214 Manual from 1978 is chock full of useful information. Seems the current manuals are chock full of useless info like "don't drive over any small dogs or children." Stuff that used to just be common sense. :banghead:
Correct, I always found it odd that the Owner's Manual doesn't mention the bleed screw. The TM does state that under normal circumstances the system is self-bleeding and the screw should only be needed in rare circumstances. However, that doesn't help the poor guy without a TM who is just doing routine annual maintenance and can't get his to self-prime.

Another example, my 2720 Owner's Manual makes no mention of the spin-on fuel filter. Under maintenance the only fuel filter mentioned is the "screen" inside the water separator. In my mind the spin-on filter is much more important than the little plastic screen in the water separator (which, in 5 years I have never found to contain a single bit of debris).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
448 Posts
Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Correct, I always found it odd that the Owner's Manual doesn't mention the bleed screw. The TM does state that under normal circumstances the system is self-bleeding and the screw should only be needed in rare circumstances. However, that doesn't help the poor guy without a TM who is just doing routine annual maintenance and can't get his to self-prime.
I do not recall seeing that the bleed screw would be needed only in rare instances in the 2032R TM. Not that it isn't there, though.

On Edit: Just did a search in the TM for 'bleed screw' - no mention of it only being rarely needed. Also did a search for 'self priming' and 'self-priming' - only found in relation to a charge pump that has to with the hydraulic system.

Another example, my 2720 Owner's Manual makes no mention of the spin-on fuel filter. Under maintenance the only fuel filter mentioned is the "screen" inside the water separator. In my mind the spin-on filter is much more important than the little plastic screen in the water separator (which, in 5 years I have never found to contain a single bit of debris).
Same for the 2032R OM and TM.

I saw the white line from the top of the strainer in the water separator. I could not tell if that was the float, so I took it apart. Found the red float under the strainer in the sediment bowl. No way it could float.

I also did not know if water would get red from the dye in the Diesel. I put the Diesel that came from the sediment bowl in a jar and added water. No dye in the water.

obtw, those aluminum lasagna pan lids from Sam's Club are handy in the shop. You can see one in the photo in post #1.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
13,123 Posts
I do not recall seeing that the bleed screw would be needed only in rare instances in the 2032R TM. Not that it isn't there, though.

On Edit: Just did a search in the TM for 'bleed screw' - no mention of it only being rarely needed. Also did a search for 'self priming' and 'self-priming' - only found in relation to a charge pump that has to with the hydraulic system.
I guess I was reading between the lines of what the TM was saying. Here is exactly what it says:

"The machine incorporates a self bleeding fuel system which forces air out of the fuel filter, injection pump, and injection nozzles, and vents it back to the fuel tank. Fuel system bleeding is usually not necessary after a repair. If the system is completely drained and will not self-prime without overheating the starter, proceed as follows."

I interpreted that to mean that under normal circumstances the manual bleed procedure is not required. This has proven to be correct because despite changing the fuel filter multiple times and draining the water separator regularly I have never needed to use the bleed screw. Keep in mind I'm referring to the 2720 and 2720 manual. Although as you know the Gen-1 2032R is exactly the same engine and fuel system.

I also did not know if water would get red from the dye in the Diesel. I put the Diesel that came from the sediment bowl in a jar and added water. No dye in the water.
I have no practical experience there as I have never used off-road diesel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
448 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I guess I was reading between the lines of what the TM was saying. Here is exactly what it says:

"The machine incorporates a self bleeding fuel system which forces air out of the fuel filter, injection pump, and injection nozzles, and vents it back to the fuel tank. Fuel system bleeding is usually not necessary after a repair. If the system is completely drained and will not self-prime without overheating the starter, proceed as follows."
I tweaked the search of the TM and found the same thing.

However, I am a believer that the less air you push thru a system, the better. Air provides squat for lubricity. I had searched for "water separator" when I found the section I put in Post #1. Makes perfect sense to get as much air out as possible.

I have no practical experience there as I have never used off-road diesel.
It's basically the same as the other, except, as a friend puts it, "It burns more cheaply."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
448 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
"The machine incorporates a self bleeding fuel system which forces air out of the fuel filter, injection pump, and injection nozzles, and vents it back to the fuel tank. Fuel system bleeding is usually not necessary after a repair. If the system is completely drained and will not self-prime without overheating the starter, proceed as follows."

I interpreted that to mean that under normal circumstances the manual bleed procedure is not required. This has proven to be correct because despite changing the fuel filter multiple times and draining the water separator regularly I have never needed to use the bleed screw. Keep in mind I'm referring to the 2720 and 2720 manual. Although as you know the Gen-1 2032R is exactly the same engine and fuel system.
I'm happy to hear that you have never needed to bleed your fuel system. But, here's more. This is from the technical manual, Fuel System Operation - Theory of Operation:
If the machine runs out of fuel, or after servicing fuel
strainer and water separator, air must be bled from the
fuel strainer and water separator. Make sure that fuel
shutoff valve is ON. Open bleed screw (C) two or three
turns and observe bleed screw. When a steady stream of
fuel with no bubbles is observed close bleed screw. Turn
the key switch ON. Let the electric fuel transfer pump run
(you should hear clicking sound) for 30 seconds to purge
the air from the fuel system.
I'm still of the belief that the less air pushed thru a fuel system, the better.

Regarding the technical manual, Consistency is exceed only by its absence. It you don't like what you've read, look someplace else. :dunno: :flag_of_truce:
 
  • Like
Reactions: SulleyBear

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
13,123 Posts
I'm still of the belief that the less air pushed thru a fuel system, the better.

Regarding the technical manual, Consistency is exceed only by its absence. It you don't like what you've read, look someplace else. :dunno: :flag_of_truce:
That is certainly true. When changing filters I always pre-fill the spin-on filter with fuel prior to reinstalling. I also allow the water separator to fill prior to starting. As such, after changing filters the tractor has always started first time and kept running. I will also agree that there is certainly no harm in going ahead and bleeding the system after changing filters.

There's no doubt the conflicting information in the manuals can be maddening. The absence of the bleed screw in the Operator's Manual is a prime example (no pun intended). Considering that probably less than 10% of owners bother to purchase the Technical Manual and that probably 20% of owner's never bother to read the Operator's Manual, the self-priming fuel system is no doubt pretty much trouble free. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
715 Posts
One last question. Will water in dyed Diesel take on some of the dye and look red? Or just clear. If I knew that, I may have not taken it apart Thanks for any incites and answers.
Shouldn't matter. If the ring is floating, whatever is below it is water regardless of the color. With undyed fuel they're both clear, or nearly so.

Al
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
448 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Shouldn't matter. If the ring is floating, whatever is below it is water regardless of the color. With undyed fuel they're both clear, or nearly so.
The point in my asking was that if water took on dye, it would be hard to tell if there was water in the separator. Especially since the ring could not float.

After the fact, I now know that the water does not take on any dye. Hope this is clear (the comment, not the fuel.) Thanks for your input.
 
  • Like
Reactions: goat704!

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,375 Posts
The whole point of the "RED RING" is to provide the visual (to the operator which hopefully understands it's point of being in the system) of the amount of water holding the red ring in suspense, since the water is heavier than diesel fuel, hence why it sinks to the bottom or separates from the fuel. Having the red ring effectively pinned to the bottom of the separator doesn't accomplish much.........pretty scary the tech who put that one back together doesn't understand it's role.

The color of diesel fuel is to distinguish between "road diesel" which has taxes charged on it and "off road", which doesn't have taxes paid on it as it's used "off road". The color is purely the dye added to distinguish them. Since the water is mixed in the fuel, the water will look like the color of the fuel more so than be clear. So, to answer your question, the water I have seen in systems is "tinted" the color of the fuel more so than clear like pure water.

But its consistency is not purely watery, it's more of a "greasy water", but you can definitely see the difference between the water and the diesel fuel. Thankfully, I can say that every personal experience with seeing the water in the fuel, etc has not been in my vehicles, but rather vehicles of others which were having power problems.

You do not want to be running a semi truck or other "commercial diesel" vehicle down the road and have the state Motor Carrier or Police look into your fuel tank with a light and see "red diesel" fuel. The fines and penalties are pretty severe. After all, they want their tax revenue to pay for the roads.

The way the "Off Road" diesel fuel sales are restricted in most areas, those of us buying fuel for true "off road use" like our SCUTS and CUTS end up paying the road tax and running the "green" diesel fuel in our off road engines. The only way I know of to purchase true off road diesel in our area would be to have a bulk tank on my property and have the delivery truck filling my bulk tank. But you have to provide documentation and certification of eligibility to purchase the fuel. Anything you purchase at any pumps around here is going to be "road diesel" and the ULSC fuel.

You have to be careful also as the B5 Diesel is blended with 5% biodiesel. The B10 through B100 are the same thing, the larger the number, the higher the percentage of bio diesel. Since Bio diesel fuel has 10 TIMES the natural water in suspense as petro diesel, the water content in Bio diesel is much greater by it's "processing methods". In fact, many Bio diesels will have a cloud point above freezing, some as high as 40 degrees where the biodiesel starts to change viscosity and won't flow in a pure liquid form. That's real handy in cold temp areas.

I won't run biodiesel in my machines. No Way. Not even the blend. I run Premium Diesel with a cetane rating of 50 and I even enhance the fuel quality above that with additives.

I wonder if the red ring is partially suspended in a system running biodiesel as the system has much higher natural water content because of biodiesel manufacturing process. I can almost picture the red ring hovering off the bottom of the separator when the biodiesel is flowing......(whether it does or not, I don't know but you have to wonder......)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Roger47

·
Registered
Joined
·
448 Posts
Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
As it turns out, neither was correct. I have it right, now. Not sure if it was a factory job or not. I doubt it. It had 24 hrs on it when it was delivered to my place about 1 yr ago. March 1, in fact.

View attachment 675176
I was curious as to what was in the water separator on my 2032R so I removed it. Here's what I found. The red ring was in the bottom of the bowl with the strainer sitting on top. I suspect it was assembled incorrectly. Can anyone verify?

Here's what it should look like and how mine is now. Ring sits bottom of bowl and the tube into it with the filter screen at the top.

m811032.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gizmo2

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
13,123 Posts
As it turns out, neither was correct. I have it right, now. Not sure if it was a factory job or not. I doubt it. It had 24 hrs on it when it was delivered to my place about 1 yr ago. March 1, in fact.

View attachment 675176



Here's what it should look like and how mine is now. Ring sits bottom of bowl and the tube into it with the filter screen at the top.

View attachment 675322
The OP’s separator seems to be of a different design and does not match what is shown in the JD Parts illustration.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
  • Like
Reactions: glc

·
Registered
Joined
·
448 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
The OP’s separator seems to be of a different design and does not match what is shown in the JD Parts illustration.
I guess that depends on to what JD Parts illustration you are referring.

What i referenced is item 6 in this picture from JD Parts.

Water_Separator.png

Item 6 snaps apart. The tube and disk remove from the strainer screen aka filter element. And the tube fits into the hole in the other end of the element. Incorrect assembly of this filter element is shown in Post 1. When I first removed it from the tractor, It had that disk on the end of the tube holding the float on the bottom of the bowl. And probably was letting crap go on by that should have been caught by the screen.

Hope this clears it up.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
13,123 Posts
I guess that depends on to what JD Parts illustration you are referring.

What i referenced is item 6 in this picture from JD Parts.

Item 6 snaps apart. The tube and disk remove from the strainer screen aka filter element. And the tube fits into the hole in the other end of the element. Incorrect assembly of this filter element is shown in Post 1. When I first removed it from the tractor, It had that disk on the end of the tube holding the float on the bottom of the bowl. And probably was letting crap go on by that should have been caught by the screen.

Hope this clears it up.
I think we're all talking about the same parts illustration. When you said it was assembled incorrectly I don't think anyone knew you meant that the stem on the white strainer comes off and can be re-inserted upside down. Looking at the photo below, I couldn't figure out why the strainer on the right didn't look like the strainer on the left or middle. :)
 

Attachments

  • Like
Reactions: Gizmo2 and Roger47

·
Registered
Joined
·
448 Posts
Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
I don't think anyone knew you meant that the stem on the white strainer comes off and can be re-inserted upside down. Looking at the photo below, I couldn't figure out why the strainer on the right didn't look like the strainer on the left or middle. :)
I didn't realize this either, yesterday. But something didn't look right. I found the photo of the actual part and then it clicked. So did the two parts when snapped together correctly. :laugh: I guess we'll never know how they got that way to begin with.:dunno:

Thanks for bearing with me through this cluster.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jgayman

·
Senior GTT Super Slacker
Joined
·
38,158 Posts
As it turns out, neither was correct. I have it right, now. Not sure if it was a factory job or not. I doubt it. It had 24 hrs on it when it was delivered to my place about 1 yr ago. March 1, in fact.

Here's what it should look like and how mine is now. Ring sits bottom of bowl and the tube into it with the filter screen at the top.

I guess that depends on to what JD Parts illustration you are referring.

What i referenced is item 6 in this picture from JD Parts.



Item 6 snaps apart. The tube and disk remove from the strainer screen aka filter element. And the tube fits into the hole in the other end of the element. Incorrect assembly of this filter element is shown in Post 1. When I first removed it from the tractor, It had that disk on the end of the tube holding the float on the bottom of the bowl. And probably was letting crap go on by that should have been caught by the screen.

Hope this clears it up.
Much better :thumbup1gif:
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top