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I mentioned this in a post in the GM thread but thought I'd separate it out to get some notice and input from the collective brain trust here! :cell:

Over the 27 years we have lived here we have always had a whole house sediment filter on the water line for our well which is 125' deep. About every 2 months I need to change the filter, sometimes longer if I forget... :hide: and it will have a good amount of reddish sediment on it. The filter is right after the pressure tank (4 years old) which is right after the pressure switch (5 years old) which is just inside the basement wall where the water line enters from the well.

This past weekend i had the pleasure of replacing the pump (and wire) which had been in place for over 23 years. The water line, wire and rope were all the same age as the pump. Surprisingly (to me) there was no reddish sediment coating on anything that was hanging in the water - the old pump, the rope, the wire or the pipe. There was no reddish sediment build up inside the pitless adapter opening or the inside of the fittings on the pump end either.

Once the pump was replaced, and running, I flushed the lines for about 2 hours and changed the filter as there was a good bit of sediment visible through the clear filter housing and I hadn't crashed yet. I changed it again last night after 24 hours, it caught a lot of sediment. Pic is below. The filters work well for us, our laundered whites don't turn red! :good2:

I am thinking about raising the pump about 10' to see if it helps clear the water on an onging basis. Maybe i'd only have to change filters every 6 months instead of every two. Our neighbors just down the road have a similar well depth and don't have any of this type sediment in their filter. I've helped the elderly folks change it and after 6 months their filter looks new, they probably don't even need a filter. There is enough water column in my well pipe to do this, I hit water at about 80' with about 40+ feet of pipe to go in. As dry as it has been here this summer I am confident raising the pump 10' will not get us out of water anytime.

Anybody ever had to deal with something similar in their well by any chance? Thoughts on my line of thinking....sensible or crazy or I'm barking up the wrong tree on the source of the sediment?

I'm not looking to get another work for nothing gained in water quality since my self assessment in the mirror indicates my lat's are developed well enough at this point in my ancient existence :munch: (yes, i have low standards :mocking:). Although it wouldn't be as big a pain as pump replacement. I would have something rigged up to hang the pump rope on once raised so I could easily move the pitless adapter down on the poly the 10' without pulling everything all the way up.

2 hours on right and 24 hours on left.....

20190909_110739.jpg
 

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Here was my story:

Help with our Well, Need advice please

We had sediment or "silt" as I called it, it ended up sticking our pump in the well for a time. When we finally got it out and replaced it we set the new pump about 10’ higher and it solved that issue for us, now I only change the filter once a year.

I do find it strange however that you saw no evidence of your red sediment on the pump or in the pipes :dunno:
 

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Thanks for the thread link, great info in there! Glad it all worked out for you in the end! :good2:

I noticed the reference to the earthquake in one of the comments which got me thinking maybe that shook things up down at the pump level in our wells? :dunno:
 

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For another thread on well water sediments:

Wells And The Stuff That Comes Out Of Them

In my case, the well guys says that when the pump kicks on, the pump draws the water from within the casing causing the water level within the casing to lower. He claims that there are layers of iron sediment in the ground and as ground water runs into the casing to fill the void, it drags all that iron sediment with it. As a result, raising my pump won't help. I just need to put in better filters and live with it.
 

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I would expect with a brand new pump that your filters will clog rather quickly for the first few months.

By pulling the pump you disturbed all the well casings and loosend any loose material inside the well line to the house.

You purged the line for two hours which is both good and bad. The purging with the new pump forced the well to recharge faster than it has in a long time which may have carried silt into the well. Silt can take a very long time to get rid of because it's so fine and stays suspended for a very long time. It's also very easily stored back up into the water

The pressure tank in the house tends to have sediment build up inside of it. The greatly increased water flow from the new pump will stir that up quite a bit. If possible use the drain valve on the well tank and Purge the tank repeatedly. You will be amazed at how much sediment will come out of that tank. You will want to run the hose from the drain valve to a drain or outside. The sediment will stain driveways so be mindful of that.
 

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I have often wondered why the filter isnt inline BEFORE the pressure tank.
The tank will fill with sediment otherwise, and there really isnt a good way to get it all out. Id imagine it also a good cause of bladder tank failure, as any sediment abrading the bladder isnt good for it.
Anyone know a good reason not to put the filter before the tank?

Ill be replacing my tank and all associated parts/fittings in the somewhat near future and had thought I might just put one inline before anything else.
 

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Unless I missed it, I did not see the height of the water in the well,,,,:dunno:

The only reason for any height of water above the pump is recovery storage,,
If you only can use as much water as the well will produce, there is no reason for water above the pump.

IIRC, my well is about 195 feet deep, and the pump is at about 150 feet.
I have probably 100 feet of water over the pump.

When pulling for a LONG time on my well, I can actually change the hardness of the water,
from what I have been told, the water starts coming from a different crevice,, or something.

I can pull red sediment from my well,, if I use water consistently for two days,,
(we do not do that anymore,,, :laugh:)

So, you kinda need to know more answers to determine if the pump can be raised,,,
and, in my opinion, the higher the pump, the better.
 

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First of all...WOW JimR...Now THAT is a sediment problem!

The filter is looking better tonight, not as much on it after 24 hours as the previous filter so things are getting back to normal already. As mentioned it was probably the agitation of pulling and setting the pumps that got things stirred up more than normal. :bigbeer:

As far as the filter before the pressure tank I am not sure. Seems like it would be good to catch the sediment before the tank but I wonder about a pressure difference due to a partially clogged filter and the pressure switch controlling the pump. :dunno:

The well does get 'exercised' occasionally when the 450 gal hot tub gets drained and refilled, the last time was mid August.

I have about 40' of water above the pump so I think I will try to raise it about 10' and see if there is any effect on the rate the filter needs changing. I hope to have the same success as KennyD did in his situation.

I think that will be a project for next weekend if I am not already volunteered for something I don't know about.
 

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I would expect with a brand new pump that your filters will clog rather quickly for the first few months.

By pulling the pump you disturbed all the well casings and loosend any loose material inside the well line to the house.

You purged the line for two hours which is both good and bad. The purging with the new pump forced the well to recharge faster than it has in a long time which may have carried silt into the well. Silt can take a very long time to get rid of because it's so fine and stays suspended for a very long time. It's also very easily stored back up into the water

The pressure tank in the house tends to have sediment build up inside of it. The greatly increased water flow from the new pump will stir that up quite a bit. If possible use the drain valve on the well tank and Purge the tank repeatedly. You will be amazed at how much sediment will come out of that tank. You will want to run the hose from the drain valve to a drain or outside. The sediment will stain driveways so be mindful of that.
Good post, I agree. :thumbup1gif:
 

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I have often wondered why the filter isnt inline BEFORE the pressure tank.
The tank will fill with sediment otherwise, and there really isnt a good way to get it all out. Id imagine it also a good cause of bladder tank failure, as any sediment abrading the bladder isnt good for it.
Anyone know a good reason not to put the filter before the tank?

Ill be replacing my tank and all associated parts/fittings in the somewhat near future and had thought I might just put one inline before anything else.
If you are putting the filter before the pressure tank, then most likely you are putting a filter between the pressure switch then as well. At least that is how mine is plumbed. What happens when your filter is clogged and it is restricting the flow on the other side of the system (to pressure switch and pressure tank)? The pump keeps pumping and you will kill it.

Besides, sediment is just that, something that will drop to the bottom of the pressure tank. The bladder isn't at the bottom. So it really isn't much of an issue unless you have a ton of sediment.

For my pressure tank, I have a ball valve right at the exit so I can flush any sediment out of it from time to time. Once every couple years or so.

I use a Rusco spin down sediment filter like this as my first filter (after the pressure tank and switch). It has a ball valve on the bottom where you can quickly dump any sediment. I also ran a loop controlled by ball valves so I can backfeed it to push anything that might have been trapped in the sediment filter and out the dump valve. I flush this when I change the whole house carbon filter.

Then the whole house carbon filter which I change probably not often enough. It is normally when I notice the pressure dropping off. That is probably every 6-9 months.

I get the rust colored stuff in the carbon filter. Our water is clear though. I do run drinking water through an RO system. That is mainly to knock down the nitrates. While we live in the suburbs of the Twin Cities, we are in a somewhat strange rural oasis with farm land around us and are sandwiched between two golf courses. We do have a private well and septic. Even before adding the RO system we never had any strange taste or smell to our water.

EDIT: This is how I have my filters set up. There is one more ball valve to the left just out of frame that I turn off when backflushing the sediment filter. In this shot you can see a little bit of dark brown sediment in the bottom.

 

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Funny this was posted yesterday. I was at the farm last night and was going to water the chickens. Looked like pure rust coming out of the hose. The well is actually the neighbors running a line to the barn.

Looks like he has well problems again. :lol:
 

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Unless I missed it, I did not see the height of the water in the well,,,,:dunno:

The only reason for any height of water above the pump is recovery storage,,
If you only can use as much water as the well will produce, there is no reason for water above the pump.

IIRC, my well is about 195 feet deep, and the pump is at about 150 feet.
I have probably 100 feet of water over the pump.

When pulling for a LONG time on my well, I can actually change the hardness of the water,
from what I have been told, the water starts coming from a different crevice,, or something.

I can pull red sediment from my well,, if I use water consistently for two days,,
(we do not do that anymore,,, :laugh:)

So, you kinda need to know more answers to determine if the pump can be raised,,,
and, in my opinion, the higher the pump, the better.
Also don't forget neighbors. We are between two golf courses. One 2000' away and the other 4000'. Yes, feet. Actually there is a third 1.3 miles away and a fourth about 2 miles away. Now I don't know where their wells are exactly for irrigation but close by and they pull a ton of water. However unlike a home where the water use is somewhat consistent, they use next to nothing all winter and in the summer months it can vary quite a bit depending on rain fall. It does help that they all have their own water towers, probably more for water pressure than anything else. Either way I am glad we have water above our well.

I don't know how low ours gets but there has been some reports in the news lately about people complaining about wells going dry. I suspect this is more likely people with older wells that may not be as deep as newer ones. They may have had plenty of water above the pump back when they were drilled but now add in golf courses and homes where more and more people are pulling from it and the levels can drop. We are at a 10 acre minimum now and there was talk about no more wells because of these concerns. Our house was built in 1963 and I assume our well is that old.

We had our pump go out a year and half ago. Now it was March I think so the golf courses were not in operation at the time. I know I had to use the FEL to clear snow to get to the well so it was still winter out. At that point in time I think we had water at 80' down (pipe was wet) and the pump was around 170' I think. I think I have a thread out here on my pump replacement.
 

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Is the red sediment coarse, such as sand like, or slimy? The reason I ask because what makes our water red they call "iron", as it resembles iron ore in color, but it is actually a bacteria and it is slimy. It is a very common water treatment issue here.

Are you utilizing a water softener or contemplating one? There are models that have a sediment filter built into them that self cleans (backflush) when the softener regenerates.
 

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Is the red sediment coarse, such as sand like, or slimy? The reason I ask because what makes our water red they call "iron", as it resembles iron ore in color, but it is actually a bacteria and it is slimy. It is a very common water treatment issue here.

Are you utilizing a water softener or contemplating one? There are models that have a sediment filter built into them that self cleans (backflush) when the softener regenerates.
You were not clear if you have a water softener that has the filter like you mentioned. We have one but have been kicking around the idea of a new one as ours is quite old. 20+ years. It is still working so it isn't very high on the list.

One question I have though is if you would drink softened water? It won't hurt you but I have read that it can have a different taste. I guess you would get used to it. We have our tap for the RO before the softener (I think) and that is the bulk of what we drink. I change the filters in that every year but maybe they would last longer with soft water than pretreated.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Is the red sediment coarse, such as sand like, or slimy? The reason I ask because what makes our water red they call "iron", as it resembles iron ore in color, but it is actually a bacteria and it is slimy. It is a very common water treatment issue here.
In our case it is not slimy but a gritty / powdery sediment.

Hey MDrew...maybe that neighbor was waiting for you to notice the water problem and he is waiting for you to come over to pull the pump for him! ...... or.......maybe that neighbor is backflushing his filter into that line running to your barn!! :laugh:
 

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Is the red sediment coarse, such as sand like, or slimy? The reason I ask because what makes our water red they call "iron", as it resembles iron ore in color, but it is actually a bacteria and it is slimy. It is a very common water treatment issue here.

Are you utilizing a water softener or contemplating one? There are models that have a sediment filter built into them that self cleans (backflush) when the softener regenerates.
Our "Culligan Man", who is a very good guy and treats us very fairly, was out looking at our system recently at the request of Mrs. Bear. It turned out our regeneration timer had gotten knocked off schedule somehow and the regeneration was occurring at 2 in the afternoon, instead of the middle of the night. This was causing some of the "iron" to appear in the white toilet tanks.

He reset the timer and then suggested we sprinkle a little iron out between the layers of salt when adding material to the water softener. When I asked about the amount of iron out to apply and he said no more than 1/2 cup with each bag of salt, sprinkled over the salt.

Between the regeneration happening in the middle of the night again when water use is very limited and the use of a little iron out in the water softener tank, the reddish iron issue is gone.

I also learned that when you have any "rust stains" in sinks or toilets, its often due to very slow running water. We had one toilet tank where the ball valve was just a little too high and it was causing a periodic slight trickle of water down the flush tube. That minimal amount of water led to a rust stripe in the back of the toilet bowl. Simply adjusting the float ball, ended the ever so slight water trickle and good bye rust stain.

Our septic tank guy mentioned how harmful so many of the cleaning chemicals are which people use and then the chemicals end up in the septic systems, killing the helpful bacteria which consumes the......well, you know.

Instead of the various chemicals which are sold to deal with hard water stains, etc. I ordered these pumice stone cleaning sticks for cleaning hard water marks as well as any iron on sinks and toilets. Not only do they work extremely well, there are no chemicals in them to damage the "good bacteria" in the septic system. :good2:


 

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You were not clear if you have a water softener that has the filter like you mentioned. We have one but have been kicking around the idea of a new one as ours is quite old. 20+ years. It is still working so it isn't very high on the list.

One question I have though is if you would drink softened water? It won't hurt you but I have read that it can have a different taste. I guess you would get used to it. We have our tap for the RO before the softener (I think) and that is the bulk of what we drink. I change the filters in that every year but maybe they would last longer with soft water than pretreated.
It does have a different taste and frankly, I don't care for it. I think the water softener water has a "flat" taste to it and as one would expect a very slight salty taste.

We have bought bottled water in the 5 gallon bottles since we have lived in this house. Recently, at the request of Mrs. Bear, I down sized to the 3 gallon bottles so they are easier handle. We fill dog dishes with this water, we cook with it and also keep a couple of water pitchers in the refrigerator for drinking or filling the coffee maker.

Plus the real Sulley Bear likes a nice cold drink when she gets back from our morning walks. Of course my K9 kids drink bottled water. Nothing but the best for them.....:good2:


The water cost is insignificant, all things considered. Actually, I spend about double each month on my coffee.......as we get the coffee packs at the water company. Their delivery charge is as much as the cost of the water so once every 4 to 6 weeks, I make a run to the water company which is just 3 miles away and swap out the now 3 gallon water bottles for full ones. I built a storage rack in the garage which will hold 32 of the 3 gallon bottles. I don't like to have the bottles sitting around on the floor.

I also swap out the water bottles for a couple of our elderly neighbors and I get the 1 gallon jugs for them so they are easy to handle for our neighbors. They appreciate it and I am already there picking up our water so throwing a case of 6 gallon jugs in the truck for them is no problem. It costs more to have the water company deliver a case of gallon jugs than the cost of the water itself.
 

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It does have a different taste and frankly, I don't care for it. I think the water softener water has a "flat" taste to it and as one would expect a very slight salty taste.

We have bought bottled water in the 5 gallon bottles since we have lived in this house. Recently, at the request of Mrs. Bear, I down sized to the 3 gallon bottles so they are easier handle. We fill dog dishes with this water, we cook with it and also keep a couple of water pitchers in the refrigerator for drinking or filling the coffee maker.

Plus the real Sulley Bear likes a nice cold drink when she gets back from our morning walks. Of course my K9 kids drink bottled water. Nothing but the best for them.....:good2:


The water cost is insignificant, all things considered. Actually, I spend about double each month on my coffee.......as we get the coffee packs at the water company. Their delivery charge is as much as the cost of the water so once every 4 to 6 weeks, I make a run to the water company which is just 3 miles away and swap out the now 3 gallon water bottles for full ones. I built a storage rack in the garage which will hold 32 of the 3 gallon bottles. I don't like to have the bottles sitting around on the floor.

I also swap out the water bottles for a couple of our elderly neighbors and I get the 1 gallon jugs for them so they are easy to handle for our neighbors. They appreciate it and I am already there picking up our water so throwing a case of 6 gallon jugs in the truck for them is no problem. It costs more to have the water company deliver a case of gallon jugs than the cost of the water itself.
We don't have a good source like that for bottled. Our best bet is to run to Walmart and refill the jugs with what I am sure is just city water.

When I changed around a lot of our plumbing in the house (ripping out 95% of the copper and went PEX) and installed a tankless water heater, I changed how a lot of things are plumbed. I now run from the filters shown in the above post to the softener. From there it goes to a Manablock Viega manifold with home runs to every point of use that sees hot or soft cold water. There are a few lines off before the softener for instance to the outside hose taps as soft water isn't good for plants/grass. It also isn't good for homebrewing. So my feed that goes out to the pole barn, well it used to anyhow was hard. With the new garage build I will run hard water (cold) out there and soft water (hot). This way I can have soft hot (for washing cars/trucks) and hard cold water for brewing or stick to RO water which I do from time to time but then I am mixing back in minerals to dial in the water profile. Normally if I am lazy when brewing, I will mix in 50/50 mix of RO and hard cold water. Mainly to cut the nitrates and calcium carbonates which we are a little on the high side. At least we don't have all the fluoride and chlorine in our water. That can mess with beer as well.
 

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You were not clear if you have a water softener that has the filter like you mentioned. We have one but have been kicking around the idea of a new one as ours is quite old. 20+ years. It is still working so it isn't very high on the list.

One question I have though is if you would drink softened water? It won't hurt you but I have read that it can have a different taste. I guess you would get used to it. We have our tap for the RO before the softener (I think) and that is the bulk of what we drink. I change the filters in that every year but maybe they would last longer with soft water than pretreated.
When I built the home, I was totally ignorant about water softeners. A good friend of mine, is a plumber and plumbed the new home. I relied on him for the softener and I got what the plumbing wholesale house sold. It couldn't handle the iron content. We put up with our whites turning a light shade of pink and red iron stains in every fixture that we were continually cleaning with 'Iron Out".

The water also had a rotten egg smell (hydrogen sulfide). So I added a whole house sediment filter before the softener and a carbon filter after. That took care of the smell, but I was changing filters every 90 days. The sediment filter was always black, when changed, from manganese.

At the seventh year in the new home, the water softener brine tank began seeping brine water out the overflow hose. The neck of the resin tank had cracked, allowing it to leak. It was not cost effective to repair. So I now became educated on water conditioning. What a racket of smoke and mirrors and some outrageous mark-ups! I had my water analyzed for hardness and iron. What I found was the iron level was far in excess of what our former softener was rated for. That came as no surprise. Moreover, I found water softeners were not designed to treat iron and of all the many models I researched, the best was right at it's upper limit with our iron content.

In the process of becoming educated, I found a number of manufacturers also offered an "Iron Filter", but were seldom spoke of and every retailer was ignorant of their existence as well as a number of so-called water treatment professionals. The "Iron Filter" operated on the same principals as a water softener, but utilized a different resin bed. When water passes through the resin bed, the iron bacteria cling to the resin, somewhat like metal filings to an electromagnet. Likewise, in a water softener, the minerals that make the water "hard" are drawn and cling to the softener resin. Of course, the resin has a finite capacity of how much iron/minerals it can attract. Thus, the need for regeneration. With a softener, the brine (salt/water mix) cause the resin to release the minerals that had clung to it and be discharged with the brine water into the drain. As the Iron Filter utilizes a different resin, it utilizes a potassium permanganate/water mix to have the resin release the iron.

All the regeneration water mix is thoroughly flushed from the resin bed, so there is no discernible amount left to be introduced into the tap water. So no, a water softener adds nothing to the treated water to make it taste different. It does remove the minerals and that is what you are not tasting. We drink the treated water, as it has no taste, and my bride makes coffee from it.

Both the Iron Filter and the Water Softener I have in place have the built in sediment filter. I installed these in 2006, so I'd be surprised if they're still manufacturing these particular models. I purchased both from Mill's Fleet-Farm. They are the Water Boss brand, manufactured by Hague Water Treatment. Fleet-Farm carried the "Pro-Series", which was normally intended for Plumbers only. Menard's offered the standard Water Boss. There is no difference between the two other than the shape/color of the cabinet. At the time I purchased mine, the Mills family and John Menard were in fierce competition and Fleet-Farm would beat any price that Menard's offered, so I ended up with the Pro-Series.

They've been in place for 13 years and we I'm very pleased with their performance. I've replaced the brine valve on both and with that the valve electric motor. The earlier brine valves had an O-ring that would eventually leak an allow brine water along the valve plunger shaft, causing it to jam/stick. When this occurred the cam that drove it could not turn, and, as a result, the drive motor would burn up or the gears would strip. The replacement valves have been re-designed to a diaphragm seal/plunger to prevent this.

When I installed the Iron Filter and replacement softener, I left the water filters housings in place. I probably really don't need them and I only change filters annually now.

DSCN0763.JPG
 

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There are specialized filters for all types of water contaminates. When I had my well drilled 5 years ago the water came out with a pH of 5.5 which is low enough to cause corrosion in water heaters and faucets. I opted to install an acid neutralizing filter to correct this issue but spent a lot of time try to find information on them.

This website has a pretty extensive list of the filter types available and what conditions they are intended to treat.
Well Water Testing & Well Water Treatment
 
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