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I just filled the tank 2 weeks ago for 1.85 a gallon, and I thought that was pretty bad. Today the guy put in 150 gallons and it was 3.98!!!! My wife called cuz she thought it was a mistake, and the guy tells her that they already raised the price since this morning to 4.59!!! WTF?! The corn was really wet this year, so there was allot of drying gas used, and this long cold snap all over the country has put a dent in the nations supply. We are being rationed too.
 

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I just filled the tank 2 weeks ago for 1.85 a gallon, and I thought that was pretty bad. Today the guy put in 150 gallons and it was 3.98!!!! My wife called cuz she thought it was a mistake, and the guy tells her that they already raised the price since this morning to 4.59!!! WTF?! The corn was really wet this year, so there was allot of drying gas used, and this long cold snap all over the country has put a dent in the nations supply. We are being rationed too.
For years I've been doing a seasonal pre-paid contract for x gallons at fixed $/gal. I guess now I'll get to find out if there's any fine print I didn't see.
 

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I contract mine.. I got locked in for $1.699 for propane for the winter. They take a 3 yr ave. and thats what you can lock in.. Last month he said it was $.60 higher off the truck. Not sure what it is now.
 

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I thought you guys might want to hear this. I have been in the Geothermal field for 25 years. For the $4.50 cents per gallon you are paying, geothermal produces the same amount of heat (94,500BTU out of one gallon) for .31 cents. If a average home uses 1500 gallon per year at $4.00 thats $6000 dollars. Geothermal produces that same amount of heat for $465.00!! I have approx 9000 sq ft of space I am heating between shop and home. My last months entire electric bill for lights and heat was $231.00 dollars.

Guys, government is paying 30% of the installation of Geothermal. BUT, only till 2016. Its a 60-90% ROI and its tax free money!!

Just saying............
 

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Yep!!

Buddy of mine drives a Transfer Bottle truck for one of the regional suppliers.

The gas goes from pipeline to the hubs, and from the hubs to the regionals, and from there to the retailers that fill your tanks.

The problem is so many empty private tanks, needing fills at one time, are overwhelming the storage capacity of the local retailers, and the regional suppliers simply cannot maintain supplys with the limited number of trucks running to both. Several states have declared energy emergencys, and have dropped drivers limitations on hours, but there still aren't enough trucks and operators. If trucks are going between retailer/distributors and the regionals, the regionals run out...then the trucks have to run between hubs and the regionals again, etc.

There is plenty of gas. Getting it where it's needed is the issue. A logistical hiccup that will be short lived.

A big part of the problem came with shifting supplys to the midwest for all the wet corn that came in early, then the hard cold snap we had drained folks tanks and everybody needed a fill.

Our prices here were $2.49 last week, so I ordered the annual fill. We heat with wood, so I wasn't too concerned.
Then they called me back and explained that it might be a week...if at all before Febuary. So I called around, and holy crap!
Ended up getting 200g @ $2.49 from our usual retailer, and holding off on getting a fill from our Farm Bureau at $3.70.
We should be good untill August on 200 Gal., but some folks are running out just as this latest cold snap is hitting.

Wed. I talked to my driver buddy about doing some wood cutting this weekend, and he's going to be running from Ohio to Maine.
It seems his boss made a deal to run LP to the northeast under contract, as the folks up in the northeast are hurting and paying even more.
Prices here are around $4.25g now. He figured it will be 3-4 weeks before things settle down again, and mid summer until prices return to sane.

Now is a good time to shop for a wood stove if you don't have one already. ;)

The war on Coal and electric rates moved a lot of folks off of electric heat, to LP, and oil prices have done the same.

Every spring storm drops plenty of free winter heat.;)
 

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Just paid $3.20.
 

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Geo is where it's at. ~70-135/mo for 4000 sq ft. Everything is electric here, but it is also very energy efficient.

Jim
 

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I have a small shop that I heat with propane. Only reason I heat it is to keep the pipes from freezing, as it has a separate well and pressure tank from my house. I bought in October, and gave $2/gal. Got 150 gallons, which should last 2 years, or more, depending on the temps. (Still had 50 left from last winter, when I only bought 100 gals.) Sounds like I should be very glad that I filled the tank then. I don't know what it is going for here now. Might get to call around and check later today, and report back.
 

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Paid $2.099 on the 13th, for 250 gallons. ~~ Lowell
 

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Called last week for LP and I didn't even think to ask the cost.. guess I will find out in the next few days. I'm thinking the first of Dec was around $2.69-2.89
 

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I called 1-22 when I saw my tank was down to 20%. They told me $3.55 per gallon. They also limited me to 250 gallons. They said this was to prevent hoarding. I've been with this supplier over 16 years. They are the ones that told me to call for a fill at 20%. I asked them how I could be hoarding? I only have the one tank.

About 5 years ago they announced a "budget" plan. You agreed to pay monthly and they agreed to a price cap. We tried the "budget" plan. The payment they wanted was WAY higher than my usage. I told them it was WAY too high. THey said they would refund any overage after 12 months. I told them they had my purchase records for the last 10 years, How come they can't figure it right or close? They said this was their first year and there would be growing pains. I ended up with a $1700 credit at the end of the year (this was 5 years ago when Propane was maybe $1.50 or less a gallon). I told them they needed to lower my monthly payment by about $140. THey said they would look into it and ended up lowering my payment by $40. I told them to just use my credit per month and then when it was gone I would start paying each month. They said they were not set up to do that. IDIOTS. I got a check for my credit and at the end of the second year I was $1200 over. I told them they had me paying $100 too much a month. They said that was right and it was better I got a credit back at the end of the year rather than owe them a balance. RANT OVER

As for Geo Thermo, we installed a new furnace about 5 years ago. The former owner installed a cheap inefficient furnace, most likely the low bid. I was willing to go with Geo Thermo and the extra cost over a high efficient propane furnace, but my wife was afraid Geo Thermo would not live up to it's promises. Her parents had built a new house in 1989 and installed Geo Thermo. It never worked right and they removed it.
So she was unwilling to take a chance on it.

This is the first I recall paying over $2 a gallon for propane. At least I am not using 150 gallons in two weeks like the first poster.
 

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I paid around $1.70/gal around the end of November. Up in my area of Superior, WI/Duluth, MN we are being rationed at 200 gal per person per delivery. The cost is in the mid $4.00 range and climbing. We are expecting $5.00 soon. Thankfully I have alot of firewood and use my propane for back up and supplemental heat.

Geothermal is the way to go. It's a high upfront cost averaging about $20,000. The federal government has been offering some serious tax incentives to install one. My understanding is with these tax incentives is the geothermal system will pay for itself after about 6 years. I know people who can heat and air condition their homes year round here in the cold country of Northern WI and MN for $400 - $600 per year. The heat and air conditioning it provides is about as close to free as you can get.

The only down side I have seen is when you get temps for extended times below zero supplemental heat such as a back up furnace or wood stove is helpful to kick on here and there to keep the house a bit more comfy temp wise. This issue is small and doesn't occur to many days over the course of the winter season.
 

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Guy- While were on this I gotta have you explain: Is LP gas Propane? I buy a 20# tank at the rez for like $8-. I want to put supplemental heat in my Deer Cabin with a propane unit. What's LP, if it is Propane, weigh a gallon? I should know this after working in the Natural Gas Industry for almost 50yrs!!! Sorry, I don't! ~Scotty
 

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Guy- While were on this I gotta have you explain: Is LP gas Propane? I buy a 20# tank at the rez for like $8-. I want to put supplemental heat in my Deer Cabin with a propane unit. What's LP, if it is Propane, weigh a gallon? I should know this after working in the Natural Gas Industry for almost 50yrs!!! Sorry, I don't! ~Scotty
Yes, propane is LP. It weighs a little more than 4 pounds to the gallon.
My BIL told me today that propane was 5.25 a gallon today, but the suppier said it was going to start coming down on Monday.
We are headed back into the deep freeze starting Monday.
 

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Herbert/Zebra,

Let me shed some light.
The only way Geothermal would not be working, is the people that installed it. Geo has been around since 1945. The reason any system does not work is installer error.
It takes far less than 6 years to pay off. I will show you the math.
1 gallon of propane equals 94,500 BTU Take that times a 95% efficient furnace and you have 89,775BTU of usable heat that is costing on average of $2.25 dollars. An average home in the country uses about 1500 gallons per year for heat and hot water.
1 Kilowatt produces 3414 BTU. Geothermal is rated by COP. An average COP on a Geothermal system is around 4.5. (I know their rated at 5 COP and higher, but its like a car. Ideal conditions you can get 25 MPG. Average runs less) What COP means is, for every kilowatt you put into the Geo unit, you get 4.5 units of energy back! (3414 X 4.5 COP) Now our BTU output of the Geo is 15,363 BTU. (By the way, everything is rated by the hour) On Ameren Illinois, I pay .047 cents per kilowatt during the winter. So that 15,363 BTU costs me .047 cents.

Now, how many kilowatts do I have to purchase to equal out the same BTU the 95% furnace is putting out in an hour? You guessed it (89,775 BTU divided by 15,363 BTU) 5.84. Now I have to buy 5.84 kilowatts in my Geo unit to produce the same heat my 95% propane is using. So 5.84 times .047 cents equals .27 cents! I pay .27 cents for the same heat you are paying 2.25 dollars for.

Now the math.........

average home uses 1500 gallon. 1500 times 2.25 is $3,375 dollars. Equate that to Geo heat is 1500 gallon times .27 cents (conversion above) equals $405 dollars. $3,375 dollars minus $405 dollars equals $2,970 dollar savings per year on heat alone!!

Average geo system $20,000
Goverment 30% tax credits -6,000
Ameren incentive -1,000
Average gas system -8,000

Ending extra to have Geo $5,000
Divided by savings ($2,970) 1.68 YEARS

Calculate the air conditioning as well and the years of payback is even lower. Thats a 60% ROI of tax free money!!! There is no place in the world you can get that kind of ROI unless you are selling cocaine!

Lifecycle costs?? By ARA ratings, geothermal has a 27 year lifespan. Gas furnaces and a/c's of today have a 12 year lifespan.

Those are the facts.
 

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LP is going for over $5 a gallon , IF you can get it. :nunu:
 

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I put in Geothermal heating and cooling in 2010 in a new home and have absolutely no regrets. I heat and cool 4,000 square feet for about $100 per month. That includes my hot water which uses a heat pump to heat the water. The Geothermal has resistance heating backup (this would get expensive if it was needed). The hot water heater has electric backup. I regret not putting in Geothermal decades ago.
 

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I am sure it was installer error (Geo Thermo) on my M/FIL's house built in 1989.
We live two states away and their house build was kept a secret from us until it was finished. They thought they were smarter than everyone and would not ask for advice. They thought everyone was out to cheat them. Their house, their hand drawn plan, was comedy of errors. They really wasted a lot of money.

I was told they spent over $10,000 on Geo Thermo. A well dumping to a pond if I remember correct.

I was willing to put it in when we upgraded furnaces, but the wife was unwilling to try. Seems like the price was 3x a high efficiency furnace after tax breaks.
 
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