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I did some searching on this topic and, while there was a lot of back and forth, this question didn't really seem to be addressed directly. There's basically two major classes of tooth bars: the snaggle-tooth traditional bars like the Heavy Hitch bar and the saw-toothed newer bars like the BXPanded Piranha.

In heavy clay soil containing many medium rocks (fist sized to cantaloupe sized), which style of toothbar will dig best if you're trying to do something like re-grade a hill or dig a trench a few inches deep but as wide as the bucket?

In heavy clay soil containing many medium rocks (fist sized to cantaloupe sized), which style of toothbar will dig best if you're trying to do something like get underneath underbrush and rip it out of the ground?



In case you can't tell it's toothbar-buying-time. I'd been settled on the Piranha but then I saw the Tractor Time with Tim that showed the HH bar and now I can't make up my mind.
 

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I did some searching on this topic and, while there was a lot of back and forth, this question didn't really seem to be addressed directly. There's basically two major classes of tooth bars: the snaggle-tooth traditional bars like the Heavy Hitch bar and the saw-toothed newer bars like the BXPanded Piranha.

In heavy clay soil containing many medium rocks (fist sized to cantaloupe sized), which style of toothbar will dig best if you're trying to do something like re-grade a hill or dig a trench a few inches deep but as wide as the bucket?

In heavy clay soil containing many medium rocks (fist sized to cantaloupe sized), which style of toothbar will dig best if you're trying to do something like get underneath underbrush and rip it out of the ground?



In case you can't tell it's toothbar-buying-time. I'd been settled on the Piranha but then I saw the Tractor Time with Tim that showed the HH bar and now I can't make up my mind.
well- i have a tooth bar like tim has, only mine does not have forked teeth-:laugh: only straight teeth for mine. as far as digging mine opened up a whole new world for me. but:banghead: on the other hand i could see where the piranha bar could be helpful for other duties also-only u can make ur mind up, to which one u want or need-ok. good luck
 

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Both styles have their own pro's and con's. The con's are not really faults, they are more like "the other style does this better".

Both styles are a noticeable improvement over a bare bucket edge.

I think it will be hard to get a fair comparison because there are likely not that many the have both. They finally decide which one to buy, it improves what they are trying to do and they tractor on happy as a pig in ......

I chose the Piranha for general versatility. It works great. For a LCUT or full size traditional TLB, I would chose the conventional tooth design.
 

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I can see where either would help you in your situation for different reasons. I have the Piranha because it was going to work the best for me and I wanted one I could leave on and still do everything I wanted to do, like back blading. I don't have hard packed clay so I don't know how mine would work in that soil. Just thinking about it makes me think that the traditional with the teeth like Tim has would break up the ground better for a better bite. I have used my Piranha to dig a hole in hard packed ground (not clay) deep enough to bury the tractor in it. Helped a neighbor that had a donkey die on him that needed burying. The Piranha did a great job for this. It cuts into the ground pretty good.
 

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I have the type of soil you have, clay and rocks. And I know my style of bar works really well for this soil type. Here are pics of my experience. Oh, and that berm behind the wall was all moved with my 2520, FEL, and tooth bar. :thumbup1gif:
 

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Both styles have their own pro's and con's. The con's are not really faults, they are more like "the other style does this better".

Both styles are a noticeable improvement over a bare bucket edge.

I think it will be hard to get a fair comparison because there are likely not that many the have both. They finally decide which one to buy, it improves what they are trying to do and they tractor on happy as a pig in ......
I posted a second video in Patrick's back yard with the HH toothbar. This time, digging up a driveway.

I can't compare with the Piranha since I don't have one. I can only provide the video of what I have...for your reference.
I have used it on two other jobs...with video coming up at some point (only so much time).

I can say that the tractor feels 10-fold more "powerful" when digging with a toothbar. This is due to the physics of the bar. A much smaller surface area contacting the earth initially. Once it gets 'started', then the tractor is able to continue pushing.

http://www.greentractortalk.com/forums/heavy-hitch/64946-heavy-hitch-toothbar-vs-butter-i-mean-well-looks-like-butter.html
 

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I have a tooth bar similar to Big Jim's and Randy's. Back when I bought mine there was no such thing as Piranha or Heavy Hitch. A lot of us at the time had one built by Markham in NC for a very reasonable price.

This works perfectly for me - I don't know that I would want to replace it with either of those 2 that are available today.

Toothbar 070907 001_zpsw5j4zuh9.jpg
 

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A nice feature that our toothbar offers is the ability to change the teeth for different conditions / situations. We use a Pengo 230 shank and the teeth are readily available at most implement dealers. They pin on and can be changed in a matter of minutes. We just like how mean the twin tiger teeth look and dig!:laugh: You also don't have to drill any holes in your bucket, simply slide it on over the cutter edge and tighten the screws.:bigthumb:
 

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Am I right that it looks like the HH bar is slightly more reasonable to only put on when I need to dig but leave off the other 90% of the time when I'm just moving stuff around?
 

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Am I right that it looks like the HH bar is slightly more reasonable to only put on when I need to dig but leave off the other 90% of the time when I'm just moving stuff around?
7 set screws with HH, 2 bolts with Piranha. Not really much difference. Easy on either one.
 

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I chose the Piranha for the back blading like Levi.
Protruding teeth tend to leave leave tooth rows.
Not a big deal on a jobsite, but didn't want them in my driveway.
Taking off the tooth bar really isn't a viable option for me on account of laziness.
 

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To each his own as long as it works for your needs that is great. But the main thing does it put a smile on your on your face!

Doug
 

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To each his own as long as it works for your needs that is great. But the main thing does it put a smile on your on your face!

Doug
Yes indeed! :bigthumb:
 

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Originally Posted by Doug To each his own as long as it works for your needs that is great. But the main thing does it put a smile on your on your face!

OTE=Levi;951786]Yes indeed! :bigthumb:[/QUOTE] yelper-mine sure does when i bolt it on, and start using it-for sure:good2::bigthumb:
 

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I have the type of soil you have, clay and rocks. And I know my style of bar works really well for this soil type. Here are pics of my experience. Oh, and that berm behind the wall was all moved with my 2520, FEL, and tooth bar. :thumbup1gif:
Randy, I see in the one pic your loader hydraulic hoses are hanging down. Do you run like that all the time? My hoses are mounted so they hang down forming a loop toward my right front tire. On occasion, when making a tight turn the tire rubs the hoses. My concern is that someday the tire will grab the hoses and damage them. Just curious as to why you opted for that.
 

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Randy, I see in the one pic your loader hydraulic hoses are hanging down. Do you run like that all the time? My hoses are mounted so they hang down forming a loop toward my right front tire. On occasion, when making a tight turn the tire rubs the hoses. My concern is that someday the tire will grab the hoses and damage them. Just curious as to why you opted for that.
Matt,
I have since corrected that issue and try to keep a closer eye on it. So to answer your question, no, I do not operate like that all the time. I have pulled the hoses back up along the loader mast and zip tied them in place. Still requires a watchful eye. You may want to consider tying yours out of harms way as well.
 

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I posted a second video in Patrick's back yard with the HH toothbar. This time, digging up a driveway.

I can't compare with the Piranha since I don't have one. I can only provide the video of what I have...for your reference.
I have used it on two other jobs...with video coming up at some point (only so much time).

I can say that the tractor feels 10-fold more "powerful" when digging with a toothbar. This is due to the physics of the bar. A much smaller surface area contacting the earth initially. Once it gets 'started', then the tractor is able to continue pushing.

http://www.greentractortalk.com/forums/heavy-hitch/64946-heavy-hitch-toothbar-vs-butter-i-mean-well-looks-like-butter.html
Heavy Hitch now has a couple of tooth bar's in stock. They won't last long.

https://heavyhitch.com/product/toothbar-john-deere-front-end-loader/
 

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A nice feature that our toothbar offers is the ability to change the teeth for different conditions / situations. We use a Pengo 230 shank and the teeth are readily available at most implement dealers. They pin on and can be changed in a matter of minutes. We just like how mean the twin tiger teeth look and dig!:laugh: You also don't have to drill any holes in your bucket, simply slide it on over the cutter edge and tighten the screws.:bigthumb:
I had a dream last night, so real in fact, that until I was half way through my first cup of coffee I really thought I had to go check. But not to my surprise it was still just a blank bucket :banghead: Now I know what you are going to say :lol: and I will just as soon as my financial adviser says go for it :good2:
 

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After digging with the 16" bucket and trying to understand why it didn't take any more power than the 12" bucket to operate on the BH I had some insight that I believe will add to the conversation here.

The reason that there was no difference is that the cutting edge of the 12" and 16" buckets are really just the width of the leading edge of the 3 teeth on each bucket. In terms of force needed to get the bucket into the ground there isn't one since both buckets have around 6" of leading edge (3 teeth maybe 2" wide or less).

Using the FEL to dig without a tooth-bar means that you have 49" (in my case) of leading edge bucket to force into the ground. No matter what, the tractor can only produce 24 HP and whatever traction it can get equates to X in terms of forward force on the leading edge.

If the FEL bucket were cut down to 12" I think you could dig into the ground pretty well with it having a flat edge. (there is a front hoe somewhere that does this). If we consider the traction and HP to be a static number the only option there is to increase force into the ground is to reduce the leading edge to something that the available traction and HP can handle.

With the 12" front hoe as an example, you could achieve the same results by adding 12 1" teeth to the front bucket. That would give the initial penetrating force of a 49" bucket a 12" wide feel. Once the initial penetration occurs and breaks up the hard pack the front edge of the bucket requires less force to invade the agitated soil. This is the principal of adding teeth to the FEL. Anything you do to concentrate the force while dispersing the drag/restriction will increase the effectiveness of your FEL.

If you had full end-to-end coverage of teeth on your bucket it isn't going to help just like having one tooth in the middle of your bucket won't really help either. I think you need to look at how hard-packed the soil is you are digging in and look at the most reduction in leading edge that won't reduce the ability to deal with specific conditions you may have. I think If I were dealing with larger round/river type stone I would want a standard tooth bar like the HH. The teeth would be more likely to get under the individual rocks and root them out of place while the piranha tends to cut them off. In a more dirt or shale type soil I think either one works just fine.

That leaves the other features of the tooth-bar to help decide which one works for you. I liked the piranha tooth-bar because it looked like it would take to brush and scrub and eat it up (and it does). I think back-dragging with the bucket near vertical leaves a decent finish (can also loosen lightly packed soil too) where the individual teeth would prevent a smooth back-drag (while vertical at least).

In short - anything that reduces the leading edge so the available HP and traction can be maximized is beneficial regardless of name or design. The other characteristics of the tooth-bar have to be considered on a case-by-case basis and individual preference is going to dictate which one works best FOR YOU and not necessarily best for everyone. That's just my observations others may have a different idea.
 
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