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I've often wondered why subcompact tractors have small wheels and tires. Why does that seem to be a hard and fast rule? Is it a marketing thing? So as not to scare people going from lawn or garden tractors into subcompacts? Or is there an actual advantage to them?

I know that smaller wheels give you a tighter turn radius, but is there a reason why they can't keep the front wheels small and just make the back wheels bigger by changing the 4WD ratio? Like...why 26" Why not 29"? Or whatever.

Would a 1025r/1023e with 29" rear tires mow any worse or turn any less tightly than what it does now? Wouldn't that just give it more traction and less soil compaction? And wouldn't that make it better as a mower?

Any thoughts?
 
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That is my only complaint about my 1025, it just looks so lame with the small tires. I'm betting it is a center of gravity issue with these real small frame tractors. They would have to redesign the transmissions to move up the drive shafts at least.
 

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That is my only complaint about my 1025, it just looks so lame with the small tires. I'm betting it is a center of gravity issue with these real small frame tractors. They would have to redesign the transmissions to move up the drive shafts at least.
I agree that center of gravity issues are likely at play here and would keep significantly taller tires off the current chassis. I wonder if future chassis redesigns could possibly incorporate taller tires.

Considering the actual displaced area of tire on the road I do wonder how much more actual weight per surface area of tire patch larger framed 2 and 3 series actually put to the ground compared to the much lighter 1 series but with a much smaller total tire patch area, if any?
 
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Slap some impressively large wheels/tires on it and some would opt for the lesser $ machine over a larger bigger buck model. As the phrase goes... "...it's marketing, marketing." Don't forget who a lot of these tractors are pitched to (see brochures) sharp lookin' ladies in white shorts doing their "estates" who don't want to hear from neighbor woman, "Oh, Martha, your lawn mower has such big clunky tires and my HUSBAND mows MY lawn!":laugh:
 

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Slap some impressively large wheels/tires on it and some would opt for the lesser $ machine over a larger bigger buck model. As the phrase goes... "...it's marketing, marketing." Don't forget who a lot of these tractors are pitched to (see brochures) sharp lookin' ladies in white shorts doing their "estates" who don't want to hear from neighbor woman, "Oh, Martha, your lawn mower has such big clunky tires and my HUSBAND mows MY lawn!":laugh:
Hahahaha, first time I showed my dad how the deck goes on and off he said that good looking broad on the TV sure makes you look like a rookie!!


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JD did make a bigger tired SCUT. It is/was the 4110, 2320, etc. Not sure if the 2025r now serves that same role or not. It is apparent if you want a bigger tire you need to go with a different model of tractor.

The 1 series is logical step up from the garden tractor X7 series. Also the 26x12x12 tires have been sort of an industry standard since the GT class and the SCUT class were created. They came standard on the 400 series GT's made in the 1980's and it was those size of GT's that evolved eventually into the X7 and SCUT class. It sure made it easier and more economical for JD to design a SCUT with commercially available tires rather than having another industry create another size tire.

Now that a 1 series has real trans oil cooler versus a fan I would not be that concerned about the ground clearance a bigger tire creates.
 

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JD did make a bigger tired SCUT. It is/was the 4110, 2320, etc. Not sure if the 2025r now serves that same role or not. It is apparent if you want a bigger tire you need to go with a different model of tractor.
The 4110 and 2320 were classified as Compact Tractor, not Sub Compact. Same with the 2-series 2025R.

I could be mistaken but I believe the only JD tractors in the Sub Compact class are the 1-series.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
From what I remember, the mower deck on the 1026R just fit between those small wheels. Bigger wheels would require a longer tractor.
That's a good point. And a longer wheelbase means larger turning radius. However, the 54D (not sure about the 60) could easily clear 27" or 29" tires, and it's not like those tires aren't available. Mahindra uses them, as does TYM (who build some of Mahindra's tractors).
 
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I agree that center of gravity issues are likely at play here and would keep significantly taller tires off the current chassis. I wonder if future chassis redesigns could possibly incorporate taller tires.

Considering the actual displaced area of tire on the road I do wonder how much more actual weight per surface area of tire patch larger framed 2 and 3 series actually put to the ground compared to the much lighter 1 series but with a much smaller total tire patch area, if any?
It'd seem quite tippy with taller tires on these machines, they're not that wide. How tight does your A$$ pucker???:lol:
 

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I would also expect the drive train to also be affected as well. The drive shaft to the front wheels and mid shaft to your hookups will be at a completely different angle. Depending on the degree it might be catastrophic to the u-joints in a very short time.
Try to remember the tractor was designed as a SCUT and making drive train changes to make it look cool is actually putting un warranted stress on parts not designed for it. I'd say if you want big tires get a bigger machine. Bigger is not always better :laugh:
 

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I would also expect the drive train to also be affected as well. The drive shaft to the front wheels and mid shaft to your hookups will be at a completely different angle. Depending on the degree it might be catastrophic to the u-joints in a very short time.
Try to remember the tractor was designed as a SCUT and making drive train changes to make it look cool is actually putting un warranted stress on parts not designed for it. I'd say if you want big tires get a bigger machine. Bigger is not always better :laugh:
I don't necessarily want big tires. I'm mostly wondering what the advantages/disadvantages of small tires are. I would like it if the reason for them goes beyond marketing and not scaring lawn/garden tractor folks.

It's not like there are no scuts wth 27 or 29" tires on the market.
 
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In my view the smaller wheels/tires are a functional thing vs. appearance. Shorter wheelbase, tight turn radius, stability, less likely to interfere with attachments, and don't forget less strain on the drive train compared to a taller tire.
 
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marketing and sales I'm sure is the driving force behind these decisions and why each tractor series is designed to target different buyers. From the release of the 650 to today's 1025 I'm sure JD along with other manufacturers has a fairly decent grasp on what their target customer is with each series of tractor. Why put larger tires on a 1 series when there is a 2 series tractor suited for the buyers wanting larger tires? Although the 1 series machines are extremely capable and there are many owners on this site who work the snot out of their 1 series I'd say the vast majority of 1 series owners do very little with their tractors. Occasionally tilling a garden, carrying mulch with the loader, perhaps digging a hole on rare occasions but in general the tractor slings grass from a mmm and the larger tires are of no need to them what so ever. The saying "don't keep all of your eggs in one basket" seems to make sense to me with this situation. To keep customers trading/buying new machines you have to offer something with the next model that they didn't get with the first purchase, in some cases that very well may be larger tires. I may be way off base but thats how I see it IMO.

The days of the buying a new tractor and passing it down to kids and grandkids seems to be gone for the most part. It truly amazes me at how folks trade off tractors just in my local region alone. Tractors have become no different than automobiles in the sense they are traded off simply because the new models has a new button for some cool feature or a deeper cup holder than the previous model. With the financing being the way it is the tractors are easily traded in, payoff rolled into the new loan, and a new tractor is delivered for a slight increase in the monthly payment. Customer is happy with a new tractor, dealership is happy, and the manufacturer is happy. Tractors are no longer the hunk of iron that serves for a single purpose of working the land. Now there has to be tons of options, features, sizes, and in general something to make customers think "dang, my old tractor with 65 hours on it sucks". Factor in new features, the next series tractor being slightly larger, along with the common "my warranty is about to expire" thought process...... tractors get traded and the world keeps turning until the next trade.

There also IMO has to be a lot of different tractor series so people can screw up with the first purchase. Often I have seen folks buy a tractor thinking they will just get the minimum needed because they don't foresee theirselves enjoying the tractor as much as they do. Once they have owned it a short period of time they realize they are completely drawn into the whole "tractor life" and want the bigger tires for example. There has to be a model waiting at the dealership for them to make the trade for the tractor they probably should have bought to begin with but was scared to pull the trigger on it.
 

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marketing and sales I'm sure is the driving force behind these decisions and why each tractor series is designed to target different buyers. From the release of the 650 to today's 1025 I'm sure JD along with other manufacturers has a fairly decent grasp on what their target customer is with each series of tractor. Why put larger tires on a 1 series when there is a 2 series tractor suited for the buyers wanting larger tires? Although the 1 series machines are extremely capable and there are many owners on this site who work the snot out of their 1 series I'd say the vast majority of 1 series owners do very little with their tractors. Occasionally tilling a garden, carrying mulch with the loader, perhaps digging a hole on rare occasions but in general the tractor slings grass from a mmm and the larger tires are of no need to them what so ever. The saying "don't keep all of your eggs in one basket" seems to make sense to me with this situation. To keep customers trading/buying new machines you have to offer something with the next model that they didn't get with the first purchase, in some cases that very well may be larger tires. I may be way off base but thats how I see it IMO.

The days of the buying a new tractor and passing it down to kids and grandkids seems to be gone for the most part. It truly amazes me at how folks trade off tractors just in my local region alone. Tractors have become no different than automobiles in the sense they are traded off simply because the new models has a new button for some cool feature or a deeper cup holder than the previous model. With the financing being the way it is the tractors are easily traded in, payoff rolled into the new loan, and a new tractor is delivered for a slight increase in the monthly payment. Customer is happy with a new tractor, dealership is happy, and the manufacturer is happy. Tractors are no longer the hunk of iron that serves for a single purpose of working the land. Now there has to be tons of options, features, sizes, and in general something to make customers think "dang, my old tractor with 65 hours on it sucks". Factor in new features, the next series tractor being slightly larger, along with the common "my warranty is about to expire" thought process...... tractors get traded and the world keeps turning until the next trade.

There also IMO has to be a lot of different tractor series so people can screw up with the first purchase. Often I have seen folks buy a tractor thinking they will just get the minimum needed because they don't foresee theirselves enjoying the tractor as much as they do. Once they have owned it a short period of time they realize they are completely drawn into the whole "tractor life" and want the bigger tires for example. There has to be a model waiting at the dealership for them to make the trade into the tractor they probably should have bought to begin with but was scared to pull the trigger on it.
Excellent post!

I have seen the same things. Firstly, I never refered to tractors with model year before I came to this forum. I still don't know what model year my tractor is and really don't care. This goes along with what you say about them being bought and traded like automobiles now I guess.

In my opinion Deere marketing hit it out of the park with the 1 series. It is marketed toward the suburban development type homeowner - that's where the money and the volume is.

And they also do a very good job with getting people dedicated to the brand. A lot of this is because of how easily it is to trade in while giving a decent price. Again - this leans toward automotive buying. Buy a generic brand from a big box store? No trade-ins there.

And a personal note about tire size - my first new diesel tractor was a 2210 (predesessor to the 1- series). I never paid any mind to the tire size when I bought it. I was actually looking at getting an x7xx as an upgrade from my old 332 and was steered immediately to the 2210 for obvious reasons. It was a no brainer for me. But with this extra capability of the loader, 3-point hitch and rear PTO I found myself working out in the wooded half of my property (with hillside). It soon became apparent to me that I needed a machine with larger wheels/tires and traded up to my current 2520. So basically I fell right into Deere's marketting plan in a way. But I was a happy camper because they have different size machines with different size wheels/tires.
 

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marketing and sales I'm sure is the driving force behind these decisions and why each tractor series is designed to target different buyers. From the release of the 650 to today's 1025 I'm sure JD along with other manufacturers has a fairly decent grasp on what their target customer is with each series of tractor. Why put larger tires on a 1 series when there is a 2 series tractor suited for the buyers wanting larger tires? Although the 1 series machines are extremely capable and there are many owners on this site who work the snot out of their 1 series I'd say the vast majority of 1 series owners do very little with their tractors. Occasionally tilling a garden, carrying mulch with the loader, perhaps digging a hole on rare occasions but in general the tractor slings grass from a mmm and the larger tires are of no need to them what so ever. The saying "don't keep all of your eggs in one basket" seems to make sense to me with this situation. To keep customers trading/buying new machines you have to offer something with the next model that they didn't get with the first purchase, in some cases that very well may be larger tires. I may be way off base but thats how I see it IMO.

The days of the buying a new tractor and passing it down to kids and grandkids seems to be gone for the most part. It truly amazes me at how folks trade off tractors just in my local region alone. Tractors have become no different than automobiles in the sense they are traded off simply because the new models has a new button for some cool feature or a deeper cup holder than the previous model. With the financing being the way it is the tractors are easily traded in, payoff rolled into the new loan, and a new tractor is delivered for a slight increase in the monthly payment. Customer is happy with a new tractor, dealership is happy, and the manufacturer is happy. Tractors are no longer the hunk of iron that serves for a single purpose of working the land. Now there has to be tons of options, features, sizes, and in general something to make customers think "dang, my old tractor with 65 hours on it sucks". Factor in new features, the next series tractor being slightly larger, along with the common "my warranty is about to expire" thought process...... tractors get traded and the world keeps turning until the next trade.

There also IMO has to be a lot of different tractor series so people can screw up with the first purchase. Often I have seen folks buy a tractor thinking they will just get the minimum needed because they don't foresee theirselves enjoying the tractor as much as they do. Once they have owned it a short period of time they realize they are completely drawn into the whole "tractor life" and want the bigger tires for example. There has to be a model waiting at the dealership for them to make the trade for the tractor they probably should have bought to begin with but was scared to pull the trigger on it.
I like it, I agree with everything you said because it is the truth....:bigthumb:
 

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One reason for the small tires is the rims are the same for the x7xx series so 2 units share the same rim just different tires.Saves money.Plus they can be tippy with the narrow frame they have where the x7xx series sits lower to the ground and isn't an issue. I think that's why also you don't see them with HDAP's on them the R4's are a harder compound tire and side wall to limit side to side flex that you would get with a hdap tire.
 

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marketing and sales I'm sure is the driving force behind these decisions and why each tractor series is designed to target different buyers. From the release of the 650 to today's 1025 I'm sure JD along with other manufacturers has a fairly decent grasp on what their target customer is with each series of tractor. Why put larger tires on a 1 series when there is a 2 series tractor suited for the buyers wanting larger tires? Although the 1 series machines are extremely capable and there are many owners on this site who work the snot out of their 1 series I'd say the vast majority of 1 series owners do very little with their tractors. Occasionally tilling a garden, carrying mulch with the loader, perhaps digging a hole on rare occasions but in general the tractor slings grass from a mmm and the larger tires are of no need to them what so ever. The saying "don't keep all of your eggs in one basket" seems to make sense to me with this situation. To keep customers trading/buying new machines you have to offer something with the next model that they didn't get with the first purchase, in some cases that very well may be larger tires. I may be way off base but thats how I see it IMO.

The days of the buying a new tractor and passing it down to kids and grandkids seems to be gone for the most part. It truly amazes me at how folks trade off tractors just in my local region alone. Tractors have become no different than automobiles in the sense they are traded off simply because the new models has a new button for some cool feature or a deeper cup holder than the previous model. With the financing being the way it is the tractors are easily traded in, payoff rolled into the new loan, and a new tractor is delivered for a slight increase in the monthly payment. Customer is happy with a new tractor, dealership is happy, and the manufacturer is happy. Tractors are no longer the hunk of iron that serves for a single purpose of working the land. Now there has to be tons of options, features, sizes, and in general something to make customers think "dang, my old tractor with 65 hours on it sucks". Factor in new features, the next series tractor being slightly larger, along with the common "my warranty is about to expire" thought process...... tractors get traded and the world keeps turning until the next trade.

There also IMO has to be a lot of different tractor series so people can screw up with the first purchase. Often I have seen folks buy a tractor thinking they will just get the minimum needed because they don't foresee theirselves enjoying the tractor as much as they do. Once they have owned it a short period of time they realize they are completely drawn into the whole "tractor life" and want the bigger tires for example. There has to be a model waiting at the dealership for them to make the trade for the tractor they probably should have bought to begin with but was scared to pull the trigger on it.
Again ky_shawn you hit it right on the head!
 

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One reason for the small tires is the rims are the same for the x7xx series so 2 units share the same rim just different tires.Saves money.Plus they can be tippy with the narrow frame they have where the x7xx series sits lower to the ground and isn't an issue. I think that's why also you don't see them with HDAP's on them the R4's are a harder compound tire and side wall to limit side to side flex that you would get with a hdap tire.
My take on this is yes, center of gravity, narrow frame, but tire cost is prolly the biggest driving factor. You go from 5-600 to a couple thousand or more.

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The 4110 and 2320 were classified as Compact Tractor, not Sub Compact. Same with the 2-series 2025R.

I could be mistaken but I believe the only JD tractors in the Sub Compact class are the 1-series.
Deere Sub & Compact tractor

Sub Compact:
2210, 2305, 1023E, 1025R & 1026R

Small Frame Compact: a few examples
650, 750, 655, 755, 4110, 2320, 2520, 2720 & (2025R, 2032R Prior to August 2016)

Medium Frame Compact: a few examples
850, 950, 855, 955, 1050 4210, 4310, 4410, 3020, 3320, 3520,3720 ,3025E, 3032E,3038E, 3033R, 3039R &3046R

Large Frame Compact: a few examples
1250, 1450, 1650, 4510, 4610, 4710, 4320, 4520, 4720, 4105, 4044M, 4044R, 4052M, 4052R, 4066M & 4066R
:thumbup1gif:
 
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