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Discussion Starter #1
After a seriously long day of leaf collection late this fall my 2008 x500 engine started to run unevenly. I changed the oil & filter, cleaned the air filter with warm soapy water, and improperly cleaned the paper element with compressed air (my inexperience). When I went to do my driveway with my 44 inch snowblower attachment a month later (today), it started unevenly but eventually ran well for about 10 minutes of blowing snow. It then started to run unevenly (hunting in and out until it died and gave me the red oil light. I put a new fuel filter in thinking that was the problem and let it be for a half an hour. It started up unevenly but within 10 seconds was running fine! I figured I was in the clear, but 20 minutes after blowing more snow, it happened again. The engine ran unevenly until it died on me and gave me the red oil light again. I just changed the oil 3 weeks ago and had not run it since. However I only put 2 quarts in when it calls for 2.1. Something tells me it's not the oil.

To me, the fact that it started for me after I let it rest and when it did run, it ran fine for 20 minutes or so - points to a overheating problem. The cause of this, to me, is puzzling and I'm wondering if someone could help me out.

Could it be a bad paper element / air filter (thanks to my inexperience of cleaning it with a compressed air)?

Could dirt have found it's way into the carburetor?

Is my fuel line gunked up? (it ran fine for 20 minutes after I changed the fuel filter)

My old man said maybe the spark arrestor? Never heard of it. ANY help would be GREATLY appreciated.
 

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It may be the oil, at least the amount needed. I would try adding that .1 amount of oil.

If no help , then catch the new oil and change the filter.

Have you added any additives to fuel .
Try running with gas cap loose.

Just some thoughts.

Adv auto and other locations sell a Sure Start in the lawnmower small engine section. Could try a can of that if lines are gunked up. Cost some where around $10.00 guaranteed to start your engine.
 

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Here is a video from my x585 from about a year ago when I had an issue that kind of sounds a bit like yours though not totally the same. I don't know the specs on your machine but the x585 has the Kawasaki 25hp EFI engine.

In the video note how hot the exhaust is getting. You can see it turning cherry red. I didn't notice this right away but once I did it was a good clue to the problem. The pan to the dash shows that the engine coolant wasn't reading outside the operating range even though the exhaust was glowing red.


The cherry red exhaust was a sign of an extreme lean situation. Once I noticed it I turned my attention to fuel system. I busted out a fuel pressure gauge and the tech manual. As I tested I would see proper pressure but then it would drop off to levels below acceptable. I dug around for a bit scratching my head and started thinking fuel pump. In talking with some others they agreed I needed to take a look at the fuel pump. I pulled the rear fenders and pulled the fuel pump from the tank. Turns out that the fuel pump is in a bracket. The pump has a small section of fuel line (1-2" maybe) that connects the fuel pump to the connectors where it transitions out of the tank. The fuel pump had jarred itself loose from this fuel line. So it was mostly lined up with the end of the fuel line and was squirting gas into the line. This would pressurize the system properly to start but the pressure would start to drop as the pump just started spraying gas all over the inside of the gas tank. There wasn't a good way to diagnose this other than seeing the pressure drops in my fuel pressure gauge. I was initially thinking the pump was failing. Which is possible in your case as well. After talking with others on this finding, I was reading that I wasn't the only person to experience this failure. I replaced the bit of hose with some bulk line from the auto parts store. I want to say John Deere sells this as a complete assembly for $$$.

So see if you can get it to do this again. If it is doing it pop open the hood and look at the exhaust. It should never be glowing cherry red. In person it was brighter than what the camera picked up on. If you see it I would dig into the fuel system more. It might be a fuel pump that slipped off the hose or a failing fuel pump. If the pump is going out there may be 3rd party options that will fit in the application. From what I recall the pump in my tractor looks a lot like the pump that I used to replace the fuel pump in my Honda Motorcycle. That was a complete assembly replacement though I found a compatible pump on eBay for about $40. Sure beats $400 that they wanted for the assembly.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Here is a video from my x585 from about a year ago when I had an issue that kind of sounds a bit like yours though not totally the same. I don't know the specs on your machine but the x585 has the Kawasaki 25hp EFI engine.

In the video note how hot the exhaust is getting. You can see it turning cherry red. I didn't notice this right away but once I did it was a good clue to the problem. The pan to the dash shows that the engine coolant wasn't reading outside the operating range even though the exhaust was glowing red.


The cherry red exhaust was a sign of an extreme lean situation. Once I noticed it I turned my attention to fuel system. I busted out a fuel pressure gauge and the tech manual. As I tested I would see proper pressure but then it would drop off to levels below acceptable. I dug around for a bit scratching my head and started thinking fuel pump. In talking with some others they agreed I needed to take a look at the fuel pump. I pulled the rear fenders and pulled the fuel pump from the tank. Turns out that the fuel pump is in a bracket. The pump has a small section of fuel line (1-2" maybe) that connects the fuel pump to the connectors where it transitions out of the tank. The fuel pump had jarred itself loose from this fuel line. So it was mostly lined up with the end of the fuel line and was squirting gas into the line. This would pressurize the system properly to start but the pressure would start to drop as the pump just started spraying gas all over the inside of the gas tank. There wasn't a good way to diagnose this other than seeing the pressure drops in my fuel pressure gauge. I was initially thinking the pump was failing. Which is possible in your case as well. After talking with others on this finding, I was reading that I wasn't the only person to experience this failure. I replaced the bit of hose with some bulk line from the auto parts store. I want to say John Deere sells this as a complete assembly for $$$.

So see if you can get it to do this again. If it is doing it pop open the hood and look at the exhaust. It should never be glowing cherry red. In person it was brighter than what the camera picked up on. If you see it I would dig into the fuel system more. It might be a fuel pump that slipped off the hose or a failing fuel pump. If the pump is going out there may be 3rd party options that will fit in the application. From what I recall the pump in my tractor looks a lot like the pump that I used to replace the fuel pump in my Honda Motorcycle. That was a complete assembly replacement though I found a compatible pump on eBay for about $40. Sure beats $400 that they wanted for the assembly.

It's a 24hp Kawasaki - thanks so much for sharing - I'll run it later tonight and troubleshoot and I'll repost. Thanks again!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Could it be carburetor icing?
Deere makes a "bra" to eliminate this problem.
Definitely in the carburetor whatever it is.
I used it the last two winters without this problem. But it does seem highly possible that it's my carburetor. Thanks!
 

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I used it the last two winters without this problem. But it does seem highly possible that it's my carburetor. Thanks!
If it has a carburetor then the issue may not be the fuel pump. An EFI Engine is more sensitive to fuel supply (pressure) than an engine with a carburetor. This is because the carbs have bowls that will help even out any supply fluctuations. If your engine is an EFI I would strongly look at pressure. If carbed then consider it but it may not be the issue.

With mine all it took is most likely hitting a bump right and the fuel pump popped off the end of the hose. Some people have reported this hose in the take breaking down over time which is why I replaced it with bulk hose rather than just hook it up again. Also as long as I was in there, I replaced the fuel line from the output on the tank to the fuel filter. It was the same size and I figured it was 12 years old. It does take a bit of work to get to the fuel tank so be sure to check other things as well. Mine started this after collecting leaves so I was thinking kind of like you that it was an air supply issue at first so I picked up one of the service kits. For mine it is new air cleaner, spark plugs, oil and fuel filter. I do that after leaf pickup is done as I usually have the mower off by then for getting ready to do snow duty so it makes it easier. Also the air cleaner gets the worst of it when picking up leaves.
 

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I'd suggest start with simple stuff. How old is the fuel? Fuel doesn't store nearly as well today as it used to, and I
have seen it go bad in as little as 30 days. If you pull the fuel fill cap off and it smells like varnish, drain the tank or siphon the old fuel out and start with fresh. The symptom you describe as hunting is usually the result of a rich or lean fuel mixture, and a simple adjustment of the mixture screw at the carb can solve the problem if its a carbureted engine. If it's fuel injected I would check fuel pressure. Either way, start with fresh fuel.
 

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First thing you need to do is replace both air filters. Don't think it's a fix to your problem. Continuing to use the one you blew holes in will damage the engine.
You defiantly have a carb on your tractor.
 

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Good tips so far. I second the test of leaving the fuel cap loose to see if the vent is plugged- failed. Also inspect for cracked or loose suction side fuel lines.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
If it has a carburetor then the issue may not be the fuel pump. An EFI Engine is more sensitive to fuel supply (pressure) than an engine with a carburetor. This is because the carbs have bowls that will help even out any supply fluctuations. If your engine is an EFI I would strongly look at pressure. If carbed then consider it but it may not be the issue.

With mine all it took is most likely hitting a bump right and the fuel pump popped off the end of the hose. Some people have reported this hose in the take breaking down over time which is why I replaced it with bulk hose rather than just hook it up again. Also as long as I was in there, I replaced the fuel line from the output on the tank to the fuel filter. It was the same size and I figured it was 12 years old. It does take a bit of work to get to the fuel tank so be sure to check other things as well. Mine started this after collecting leaves so I was thinking kind of like you that it was an air supply issue at first so I picked up one of the service kits. For mine it is new air cleaner, spark plugs, oil and fuel filter. I do that after leaf pickup is done as I usually have the mower off by then for getting ready to do snow duty so it makes it easier. Also the air cleaner gets the worst of it when picking up leaves.
That's funny you mentioned this. I did get a maintenance kit last year that came with oil, fuel, air filter and spark plugs. Did all that at the beginning of 2015. This year I just changed the oil filter and fuel filter, but I'm definitely getting a new air filter after my mishap of using compressed air. I will try that route first before going into the fuel tank, but it very well could be that - (I hope not) Thanks for the help. Tonight and tomorrow I start to troubleshoot and reduce some of these variables.
 

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That's funny you mentioned this. I did get a maintenance kit last year that came with oil, fuel, air filter and spark plugs. Did all that at the beginning of 2015. This year I just changed the oil filter and fuel filter, but I'm definitely getting a new air filter after my mishap of using compressed air. I will try that route first before going into the fuel tank, but it very well could be that - (I hope not) Thanks for the help. Tonight and tomorrow I start to troubleshoot and reduce some of these variables.
I have always done the maintenance kits. Not that much more in cost since I want a new air filter after collecting leaves as I mentioned. It gets pretty dusty as I prefer to do it when they are dry so they turn to dust so I am not dumping the cart so often. We will see how things go next year. I might drop down to maintenance kits every other year and just an annual oil and filter change like you did. I am getting ready to close the deal on a Z950R with the DFS vac system so I won't be cutting grass or picking up leaves anymore with my x585. I will only use it for the front end loader and box grader in the summer then snow duties in the winter. It will see a lot less hours than it does now.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Is there any chance that it's ethanol gunkin' up the fuel lines or carburetor?
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
I took off the air filter base and used some GUMOUT carb cleaner on the carb and linkage. The linkage was sticking pretty good before, and now after cleaning it seems to be pretty good. When I was removing the air filter base, I destroyed the gasket and am now waiting to order it on Monday. Got a new air filter as well. I ran it for a good half hour with the air filter off and it seems to run fine. There really is no telling until I really push it the next time I need to blow the driveway. I also removed a good deal of oil (despite only adding 2 quarts when it called for 2.1 - it measured more than full on the dip stick). If I get the same problem after the next snowstorm, i'll head back to this thread to look at some of the other suggestions.

Does anyone know where I can buy the Carburetor gasket kit online? JDparts is giving me trouble. Thanks.
 

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What model engine does it have? The FH721V or the FV730V model?
 

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Here's the JDParts.com breakdown and part numbers.



Carburetor and Intake Manifold, FH721V
CartkeyPART NO.PART NAMEQTY SERIAL NO.REMARKS
1M140260Gasket1
(A), AIR FILTER
2MIU12056Intake Manifold1
(SUB FOR M140276)
3M140262Gasket2
(A), MANIFOLD
4M140293Stud2
NLA; ORDER MIU11740
MIU11740Stud2
519M7862Screw4
M6 X 20
6M141357Gasket2
(A), CARBURETOR
7M141358Insulator1
(A)
8MIA10524Carburetor1
(MARKED FH721V-AS34, FH7 21V-BS34) (SUB MIA11363)
MIA11363Carburetor1
(MARKED FH721V-CS34, FH721V-DS34)
CartkeyPART NO.PART NAMEQTY SERIAL NO.REMARKS
9M153088Screw3
COVER
10M153061Cover1
11M153060Gasket1
(A), COVER
12M140285Plug2
13M140274Needle2
14M140278Screw1
15M140288Spring1
16M140287Seal1
(A)
17M153149Bushing1
(A)
18M147604Valve2
THROTTLE
CartkeyPART NO.PART NAMEQTY SERIAL NO.REMARKS
19M140277Screw6
20M154535Shaft1
THROTTLE
21M140286Seal1
(A)
22M153067Valve1
CHOKE
23M153143Shaft1
CHOKE
24AM134973Chamber1
MARKED FH721V-AS34, FH721V-BS34; Float
MIA11364Chamber1
MARKED FH721V-CS34, FH721V- DS34; ORDER MIA11620; Float
MIA11620Chamber Kit1
MARKED FH721V-CS34, FH721V-DS34; Float
25M140280Screw1
26M140289Spring1
USE WITH MIA11364
CartkeyPART NO.PART NAMEQTY SERIAL NO.REMARKS
27M153069Solenoid Valve1
FUEL
28M153056Gasket1
(A)
29M153087Screw2
30M153059Gasket1
(A)
31M153077O-Ring1
(A)
32M153064Float1
33M152992Valve1
(A), FLOAT
34M153074Pin1
35M153073Spacer1
36MIU12486O-Ring1
(A), SPACER, (SUB FOR M153075)
CartkeyPART NO.PART NAMEQTY SERIAL NO.REMARKS
37M153058Gasket1
(A), SPACER
38M153076O-Ring2
(A)
39M153078Jet1
MAIN (NO.102) (CYL. NO.1)
M153080Jet1
(3500-7000 FT), MAIN (NO.99) (HIGH ALT.)
M153148Jet1
(7000 FT AND ABOVE), MAIN (NO.9 6) (HIGH ALT.) (SUB FOR M153081)
M153083Jet1
MAIN (NO.104)
40M153445Jet1
MAIN (NO.104) (CYL. NO.2)
M153079Jet1
(3500-7000 FT), MAIN (NO.101) (HIGH ALT.)
M153147Jet1
(7000 FT AND ABOVE), M AIN (NO.98) (HIGH ALT.)
MIU12057Jet1
MAIN (NO.106)
CartkeyPART NO.PART NAMEQTY SERIAL NO.REMARKS
MIU12058Jet1
(3280-6569 FT), MAIN (NO.103) (HIGH ALT.)
MIU12059Jet1
(6560 FT AND ABOVE), MA IN (NO.100) (HIGH ALT.)
..MIA10927Gasket Kit1
(INCLUDES PARTS MARKED (A)) (SUB FOR MIA10521)
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Thanks. I got to there, but it wouldn't let me order it or price it. I guess because I have to go through my local dealer. Luckily it's 10 minutes down the road on the way to work. Of course, I forgot to call today. :banghead:
 

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Have you done anything with the spark plugs? I would certainly do the following;

1. Replace air filter, it could easily be collapsed due to the compressed air cleaning. In the future, if you need to knock the dirt out of the filter, tap the filter firmly and flatly on a hard surface (clean concrete floor or driveway, etc.). Also you can use low pressure compressed air BUT ALWAYS blow the air from the center of the inside of the filter towards the outside. Anything else and you are actually pushing the dirt into the filter.

2. I would put 100% new fuel in it. Ethanol is a serious problem and very corrosive to fuel system parts.

3. Spray the carb, while the engine is running, with carb cleaner. Spray enough to clean but not enough to kill the engine.

4. It could be a fuel pump or fuel pickup screen or supply line issue. The tank is under the rear body panel and easy to get to after taking out about 6 bolts.

5. If you don't have a Factory Technical Service manual for your tractor, get one. Either on Ebay or wherever, but they are extremely handy to have.

6. I would put spark plugs in it and carefully check the plug wires. Running the engine at wide open throttle picking up leaves for a long period of time can cause lean issues if there was any air filter blockage, which could damage the plugs. Between the lean condition and the ethanol fuel, fuel system problems are extremely common.

7. It's possible that it's also a carb jet issue which is very common due to the ethanol. That would make the motor run lean, could cause the exhaust to get red hot and also will result in a loss of power.

My money is on a fuel system problem..........Good luck. and let us know what you find.
 
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