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Discussion Starter #1
Being a new tractor owner, I’m curious which is preferred for an X738 by you experienced folks.....

One of the aftermarket FELs or the new JD Tractor Shovel attached to the 54” front blade?

The Shovel is about 50% of the cheapest aftermarket FEL that I have seen. But not sure how their capabilities match up.

I bought the Shovel when I ordered my tractor because I hadn’t heard about the aftermarket FELs, now I’m curious what would have been better. Read - should I spend more money? LOL
 

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The CTC loader is a full function loader that will load a pickup truck.

Everything else can move stuff around.

It really depends on what your needs are if you need something better that the tractor bucket you already have.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The CTC loader is a full function loader that will load a pickup truck.

Everything else can move stuff around.

It really depends on what your needs are if you need something better that the tractor bucket you already have.

Any ideas how Deere views aftermarket FELs when it comes to a warranty issue?
 

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I'm planning on ordering the CTC loader later this summer for my x738. It is the only real loader option for the x700 series. I didn't want to go with something cheaper and later regret that l needed a loader for some bigger jobs. If you go with the loader then you would want to replace the TRV and free wheeling lever. Then shim the IRV while you already removed the rear fender and seat. There are several post on this already.
 

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I used to own a super garden tractor with a FEL. Compared to a shovel the lift height can't be beat. It all depends on your needs. If I had to choose between the two, the FEL wins in my book. When I had the FEL on my JD 400, I needed it for the bucket and forks I put on it. Having a lot of lift height compared to a shovel was way more important to me. I have since moved on to a SCUT and now a 3E series compact tractor. It really depends on what your intended use of the FEL is for. I believe CTC loaders are one of the only aftermarket loaders for a JD X7 series. Hopefully its a quick attach/detach set up.
 

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Any ideas how Deere views aftermarket FELs when it comes to a warranty issue?
When Deere still made the 45 Loader they were Picky on aftermarket Loaders for the X700 series. But if Deere doesn't Make one they usually don't seem to Care. Basically if You damage the Frame doing something You shouldn't be doing Don't tell You dealer You were running a Loader, Remove Loader and sub frame Before it is Picked up. Each John Deere dealer has to deal with two Factory reps(majority of the time it's wet behind the ears Kids) for Deere service Reps and some Could Care less what You run on your tractor. But others are Just Plain picky Basically what could Happen is this You bend Your Frame and for what would be Normally a warranty Issue Deere may not cover the warranty fix But as soon as the new Frame is Installed at Your Cost the warranty will be Back to Normal meaning if you damage the Frame again and it Has Nothing to do with the Loader it will be covered By the warranty.

Deere doesn't usually Void the whole Machines Warranty as Long as You Not constantly over Loading the Loader You should be Just fine. Most Frame damage is actually do to age and More than likely the tractor is out of warranty anyways. But if You Have the Loader On and it Picked Up for Normal service Deere not Going to Void the Machines warranty because You have a aftermarket Loader Mounted. Or say You Break the front axle if they Determine the reason the axle Broke was do to the Loader use. Then You will be Picking up the Cost of repair out of Pocket for that Axle repair .

My Younger Brother Is a Deere dealer service Manager and they have Installed several CTC Loaders for customers even Johnny Bucket Sr's and Jr's and aftermarket Loaders for AG tractors Deere doesn't Make a Loader for the 9R series But some aftermarket supplier's actually Make Loaders for those tractors

They Have had several issue with the entry Level 100 series where People have Killed there T40J or K46 transmissions In there 100 series Because they were using it to Pull a heavy Load which those transmission are not designed to do Deere didn't cover the warranty repair for the Transmission the customer had to foot the bill But everything else was still covered By the warranty mean a Guy Killed his trans But had engine Issues which were fixed at the same time under warranty. Hope this helps explains it for You.

You would be Just Fine using a CTC Loader for Your leveling Project for You barn/shed/shop and if You shim Make sure You don't exceed 1350 PSI The transmission is Rated for 1500 But my brother People Have see issues when it shimmed higher than 1350 PSI which will give You about 700Lbs In the Loader Bucket to Max Height :bigthumb:
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I bought the tractor shovel because I could not justify the cost of an aftermarket FEL. Here's a thread I started about this: https://www.greentractortalk.com/forums/lawn-garden-tractors/175520-jd-54-tractor-shovel.html

Thanks. That was a great thread! I think I’m kind of in the same place you were. Wish I could test run a couple of the FELs.

My biggest question is, will they be able to engage the ground more than the tractor shovel?
If not, I probably wouldn’t get one. I don’t need to unload or load into a truck or trailer.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks Sergeant. Lots of good info there.


Any ideas how Deere views aftermarket FELs when it comes to a warranty issue?
When Deere still made the 45 Loader they were Picky on aftermarket Loaders for the X700 series. But if Deere doesn't Make one they usually don't seem to Care. Basically if You damage the Frame doing something You shouldn't be doing Don't tell You dealer You
were running a Loader, Remove Loader and sub frame Before it is Picked up. Each John Deere dealer has to deal with two Factory reps(majority of the time it's wet behind the ears Kids) for Deere service Reps and some Could Care less what You run on your tractor. But others are Just Plain picky Basically what could Happen is this You bend Your Frame and for what would be Normally a warranty Issue Deere may not cover the warranty fix But as soon as the new Frame is Installed at Your Cost the warranty will be Back to Normal meaning if you damage the Frame again and it Has Nothing to do with the Loader it will be covered By the warranty.

Deere doesn't usually Void the whole Machines Warranty as Long as You Not constantly over Loading the Loader You should be Just fine. Most Frame damage is actually do to age and More than likely the tractor is out of warranty anyways. But if You Have the Loader On and it Picked Up for Normal service Deere not Going to Void the Machines warranty because You have a aftermarket Loader Mounted. Or say You Break the front axle if they Determine the reason the axle Broke was do to the Loader use. Then You will be Picking up the Cost of repair out of Pocket for that Axle repair .

My Younger Brother Is a Deere dealer service Manager and they have Installed several CTC Loaders for customers even Johnny Bucket Sr's and Jr's and aftermarket Loaders for AG tractors Deere doesn't Make a Loader for the 9R series But some aftermarket supplier's actually Make Loaders for those tractors

They Have had several issue with the entry Level 100 series where People have Killed there T40J or K46 transmissions In there 100 series Because they were using it to Pull a heavy Load which those transmission are not designed to do Deere didn't cover the warranty repair for the Transmission the customer had to foot the bill But everything else was still covered By the warranty mean a Guy Killed his trans But had engine Issues which were fixed at the same time under warranty. Hope this helps explains it for You.

You would be Just Fine using a CTC Loader for Your leveling Project for You barn/shed/shop and if You shim Make sure You don't exceed 1350 PSI The transmission is Rated for 1500 But my brother People Have see issues when it shimmed higher than 1350 PSI which will give You about 700Lbs In the Loader Bucket to Max Height
 

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Thanks. That was a great thread! I think I’m kind of in the same place you were. Wish I could test run a couple of the FELs.

My biggest question is, will they be able to engage the ground more than the tractor shovel?
If not, I probably wouldn’t get one. I don’t need to unload or load into a truck or trailer.
Thanks Sergeant. Lots of good info there.
The CTC Loader with a Expanded Piranha Tooth Bar BXpanded Piranha Toothbar or a Heavy Hitch tooth Bar Bucket Tooth Bar, Clamp On for Sub-Compact Tractor will allow You to excavate some Deep Holes If You want.

But It's really sounds Like You Need a Johnny Bucket Sr Johnny Bucket Sr. John Deere 300-400 series with a tooth Bar it does a Far superior Job excavating than the Superior Tech Tractor shovel ever will:bigthumb:
 

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When Deere still made the 45 Loader they were Picky on aftermarket Loaders for the X700 series. But if Deere doesn't Make one they usually don't seem to Care. Basically if You damage the Frame doing something You shouldn't be doing Don't tell You dealer You were running a Loader, Remove Loader and sub frame Before it is Picked up.

Each John Deere dealer has to deal with two Factory reps(majority of the time it's wet behind the ears Kids) for Deere service Reps and some Could Care less what You run on your tractor. But others are Just Plain picky Basically what could Happen is this You bend Your Frame and for what would be Normally a warranty Issue Deere may not cover the warranty fix But as soon as the new Frame is Installed at Your Cost the warranty will be Back to Normal meaning if you damage the Frame again and it Has Nothing to do with the Loader it will be covered By the warranty.

Deere doesn't usually Void the whole Machines Warranty as Long as You Not constantly over Loading the Loader You should be Just fine. Most Frame damage is actually do to age and More than likely the tractor is out of warranty anyways. But if You Have the Loader On and it Picked Up for Normal service Deere not Going to Void the Machines warranty because You have a aftermarket Loader Mounted. Or say You Break the front axle if they Determine the reason the axle Broke was do to the Loader use. Then You will be Picking up the Cost of repair out of Pocket for that Axle repair .

My Younger Brother Is a Deere dealer service Manager and they have Installed several CTC Loaders for customers even Johnny Bucket Sr's and Jr's and aftermarket Loaders for AG tractors Deere doesn't Make a Loader for the 9R series But some aftermarket supplier's actually Make Loaders for those tractors

They Have had several issue with the entry Level 100 series where People have Killed there T40J or K46 transmissions In there 100 series Because they were using it to Pull a heavy Load which those transmission are not designed to do Deere didn't cover the warranty repair for the Transmission the customer had to foot the bill But everything else was still covered By the warranty mean a Guy Killed his trans But had engine Issues which were fixed at the same time under warranty. Hope this helps explains it for You.

You would be Just Fine using a CTC Loader for Your leveling Project for You barn/shed/shop and if You shim Make sure You don't exceed 1350 PSI The transmission is Rated for 1500 But my brother People Have see issues when it shimmed higher than 1350 PSI which will give You about 700Lbs In the Loader Bucket to Max Height :bigthumb:
So, in other words, lie and be deceitful. The old "what they don't know won't hurt them." I am surprised someone would actually suggest such an approach, let alone put it in writing. If there was ever a disclaimer needed regarding following one's advice, clearly it's here.

It's not the addition of the after market loader which causes warranty problems, it's misuse of the machine. If the issue was simply adding an after market item, the addition of a non John Deere seat cover in theory, could cause the warranty to be void. But the seat cover wouldn't result in the machine being misused or used in a way not intended. Even the installation of an after market loader wouldn't in itself void the warranty, its the use of the machine with the loader which could raise issues.

The damage that would happen to the machine as the result of the installation of an after market loader would most likely be either front axle damage, front drive train damage due to the loads, frame damage or possibly hydraulic system damage if the hydraulic pump is shimmed to increase the machines capacity. There would be no other reasonable way that such damage could occur to a newer machine, so the question of having altered the machine or using aftermarket "add on" equipment would certainly be raised.

The Magnuson - Moss Warranty Act of 1975 is Federal Law in the United States and applies to all manufacturers warranties. Part of this act specifically prohibits manufacturers from refusing to cover warranty claims merely because the consumer has used or installed after market parts on their vehicle. However, if the manufacturer can prove that the damage or defect in the vehicle is because of the use of an after market part, then they legally can deny their warranty coverage on the issues specifically related to the use of an after market part.

These are issues enforced by the Federal Trade Commission. This has been a very prominent issue with SEMA (Specialty Equipment Manufacturers Association) related to automotive and other after market parts sales and use. The burden of proof for a warranty declination lies with the manufacturer and their dealer involved in the repairs.

Whether the John Deere rep is an experienced employee or not should have no bearing on the matter. Being dishonest, lying or attempting to misrepresent the actual use of the machine in an effort to secure warranty coverage where it wouldn't normally be offered is the issue. Such behavior opens the door to Felony fraud charges (based upon the dollar value of the repairs made or damage done) if Deere makes the repairs in good faith only to find out the damage actually occurred as the result of misuse of the machine by the customer.

From the Deere warranty statement dated October 1, 2018

""WHAT IS NOT WARRANTED JOHN DEERE IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE FOLLOWING:(1) Used Equipment;(2) Any Equipment that has been altered or modified in ways not approved by John Deere, including, but not limited to, setting injection pump fuel delivery above John Deere specifications; (3) Depreciation or damage caused by normal wear, lack of reasonable and proper maintenance, failure to follow operating instructions, misuse""........

In the Operators Manual for the x738, Deere specifically acknowledges that Machine Ballast may be needed based upon the use of the machine. They acknowledge the need for ballast on the front of the machine as well as the rear of the machine. In fact, their notice about ballast says the following;

""CAUTION: Ballasted machine may become unstable when attachment is raised. Always drive slowly over uneven ground and when turning with raised attachment.""

While Deere doesn't currently offer a FEL, they clearly understand that attachments are used on the front and they can be raised. Deere marketed the Series 45 loader for the x7xx series up until a few years ago, so their expectation of an aftermarket loader being installed on these machines only follows their prior actions when Deere was offering the loader for these machines. In fact, here is Deere accessory material which shows this loader being installed and used on these machines on page 19 of 32 in this Deere produced material.

https://jdparts.deere.com/partsmkt/document/english/featbene/RidingLawnEquip_US.pdf

Bottom line regarding a loader on your tractor. While Deere presently doesn't offer a loader for the x7xx machines, they previously have. Installing an after market loader on your machine wouldn't automatically void the warranty as such actions are specifically prohibited by Federal Law.

If you add an after market loader to the machine, follow all recognized safety and appropriate use of the machine including machine ballast, safe driving approaches, etc. Use the machine appropriately based upon its design and capabilities. Should you have an issue with your machine, don't hide the use of an after market FEL, just be prepared to demonstrate that you have used the machine appropriately and safely and followed proper guides and practices regarding ballast, etc.

Understand that the addition of an after market FEL may require you to prove you followed appropriate use of the machine and did not misuse it. For example, if you have an aftermarket FEL and no means to add ballast to the rear of the machine, you are very likely misusing the machine as it was designed and intended. Be prepared to demonstrate you have used the machine appropriately (pictures and video of its use showing the machine operated properly) . You tube videos of you and the machine doing extreme things or inappropriate things certainly won't help your case.

But NEVER lie, deceive or attempt to mislead the dealer service department, factory warranty related service personnel, the service technicians from the dealer etc. Actually, an easier way to sum this up is lying, being deceitful and dishonest is NEVER a good policy or approach under any circumstance. Not only is it wrong, its possibly criminal behavior. Plus, it just isn't right.
 

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My dealer mounts the CTC loader for the costumer on the 2013's and newer x7xx series.No change in warranty.They do recommend 4wd.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks - Will call the dealer and see

My dealer mounts the CTC loader for the costumer on the 2013's and newer x7xx series.No change in warranty.They do recommend 4wd.

I had no idea they might do that. Will definitely give them a call Tom. Thanks !
 

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I have an x738 also. I just put in my order for an CTC loader on Monday. You would also want to replace the BW15044 Transaxle Hydrostatic Relief Valve and M146148 Free-Wheeling Valve Control Lever. I tested my hydraulic pressure and it is 1000 PSI. Since I will have everything torn apart to replace the TRV I'm going to shim the IRV to bring the hydraulic pressure to 1250 PSI.
 

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I have an x738 also. I just put in my order for an CTC loader on Monday. You would also want to replace the BW15044 Transaxle Hydrostatic Relief Valve and M146148 Free-Wheeling Valve Control Lever. I tested my hydraulic pressure and it is 1000 PSI. Since I will have everything torn apart to replace the TRV I'm going to shim the IRV to bring the hydraulic pressure to 1250 PSI.
What was the turn around time quoted? I need to place my order shortly. I am waiting some measurements for an extra attachment CTC is making before I can order.
 

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So, in other words, lie and be deceitful. The old "what they don't know won't hurt them." I am surprised someone would actually suggest such an approach, let alone put it in writing. If there was ever a disclaimer needed regarding following one's advice, clearly it's here.

It's not the addition of the after market loader which causes warranty problems, it's misuse of the machine. If the issue was simply adding an after market item, the addition of a non John Deere seat cover in theory, could cause the warranty to be void. But the seat cover wouldn't result in the machine being misused or used in a way not intended. Even the installation of an after market loader wouldn't in itself void the warranty, its the use of the machine with the loader which could raise issues.

The damage that would happen to the machine as the result of the installation of an after market loader would most likely be either front axle damage, front drive train damage due to the loads, frame damage or possibly hydraulic system damage if the hydraulic pump is shimmed to increase the machines capacity. There would be no other reasonable way that such damage could occur to a newer machine, so the question of having altered the machine or using aftermarket "add on" equipment would certainly be raised.

The Magnuson - Moss Warranty Act of 1975 is Federal Law in the United States and applies to all manufacturers warranties. Part of this act specifically prohibits manufacturers from refusing to cover warranty claims merely because the consumer has used or installed after market parts on their vehicle. However, if the manufacturer can prove that the damage or defect in the vehicle is because of the use of an after market part, then they legally can deny their warranty coverage on the issues specifically related to the use of an after market part.

These are issues enforced by the Federal Trade Commission. This has been a very prominent issue with SEMA (Specialty Equipment Manufacturers Association) related to automotive and other after market parts sales and use. The burden of proof for a warranty declination lies with the manufacturer and their dealer involved in the repairs.

Whether the John Deere rep is an experienced employee or not should have no bearing on the matter. Being dishonest, lying or attempting to misrepresent the actual use of the machine in an effort to secure warranty coverage where it wouldn't normally be offered is the issue. Such behavior opens the door to Felony fraud charges (based upon the dollar value of the repairs made or damage done) if Deere makes the repairs in good faith only to find out the damage actually occurred as the result of misuse of the machine by the customer.

From the Deere warranty statement dated October 1, 2018

""WHAT IS NOT WARRANTED JOHN DEERE IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE FOLLOWING:(1) Used Equipment;(2) Any Equipment that has been altered or modified in ways not approved by John Deere, including, but not limited to, setting injection pump fuel delivery above John Deere specifications; (3) Depreciation or damage caused by normal wear, lack of reasonable and proper maintenance, failure to follow operating instructions, misuse""........

In the Operators Manual for the x738, Deere specifically acknowledges that Machine Ballast may be needed based upon the use of the machine. They acknowledge the need for ballast on the front of the machine as well as the rear of the machine. In fact, their notice about ballast says the following;

""CAUTION: Ballasted machine may become unstable when attachment is raised. Always drive slowly over uneven ground and when turning with raised attachment.""

While Deere doesn't currently offer a FEL, they clearly understand that attachments are used on the front and they can be raised. Deere marketed the Series 45 loader for the x7xx series up until a few years ago, so their expectation of an aftermarket loader being installed on these machines only follows their prior actions when Deere was offering the loader for these machines. In fact, here is Deere accessory material which shows this loader being installed and used on these machines on page 19 of 32 in this Deere produced material.

https://jdparts.deere.com/partsmkt/document/english/featbene/RidingLawnEquip_US.pdf

Bottom line regarding a loader on your tractor. While Deere presently doesn't offer a loader for the x7xx machines, they previously have. Installing an after market loader on your machine wouldn't automatically void the warranty as such actions are specifically prohibited by Federal Law.

If you add an after market loader to the machine, follow all recognized safety and appropriate use of the machine including machine ballast, safe driving approaches, etc. Use the machine appropriately based upon its design and capabilities. Should you have an issue with your machine, don't hide the use of an after market FEL, just be prepared to demonstrate that you have used the machine appropriately and safely and followed proper guides and practices regarding ballast, etc.

Understand that the addition of an after market FEL may require you to prove you followed appropriate use of the machine and did not misuse it. For example, if you have an aftermarket FEL and no means to add ballast to the rear of the machine, you are very likely misusing the machine as it was designed and intended. Be prepared to demonstrate you have used the machine appropriately (pictures and video of its use showing the machine operated properly) . You tube videos of you and the machine doing extreme things or inappropriate things certainly won't help your case.

But NEVER lie, deceive or attempt to mislead the dealer service department, factory warranty related service personnel, the service technicians from the dealer etc. Actually, an easier way to sum this up is lying, being deceitful and dishonest is NEVER a good policy or approach under any circumstance. Not only is it wrong, its possibly criminal behavior. Plus, it just isn't right.
Well I have seen warranties sections Voided Based On aftermarket attachments by a Deere territory Rep and the damage was Not actually do to the Attachment and that was On a X728 Deere refused to Pay for the Labor on the Transmission issue The customer Had to Pay for the fix Out of Pocket. And it Happen to Be a CTC Loader that was Mounted at the time. The rep's reasoning was the Loader Must have caused the damage. Keep In Mind Most Territory Reps are Not engineers. Had the Owner Just removed the Loader More then Likely his warranty issue would Have been fixed & Payed for By Deere and Yes It went to court He sued and Lost On the Labor cost The territory Rep end Up Being fired for another similar Mess he got Deere Into at the same dealership

So the John Deere dealers suggestion was Leave Your aftermarket attachment at home when sending You Tractor In for service Because You never know when a Territory rep Might be around I should Have Been more clearer On My statement. If You damage something and it has nothing to do with said aftermarket attachment leave said after Market attachment at Home. So You don't run into issues

At the Time Deere Made the 45 Loader so they were a Little More Picky on aftermarket attachments. But when Deere isn't Making a In house attachment they don't seem to care about aftermarket attachments

Is it being deceitful if said aftermarket attachment didn't cause the damage and You took it off before they picked it Up for service? I don't think so

Because if I had a X758 with a CTC Loader More then Likely because of what I saw. I would take My Loader Off Before I would send it in. Because I don't want to run into any problems because I don't Know My dealers Current Deere service Rep

Magnuson - Moss Warranty

something You forgot to mention While it does cover the Parts themselves it doesn't Cover the Labor Meaning You can still be stuck with covering the Labor to fix the Issue under warranty


I am Just passing On what I saw first Hand while I was working Part time for the Deere dealer.


:bigthumb:
 
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