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Hiya,

So here was yesterdays adventure, picking up a South Bend Heavy Ten in RI and migrating north. Ya, it was cold.

I went with the heavy 10 rather than a new import as the weight in the olders lathes is in the bed and headstock rather than the newer import gearheads with big heavy transmissions but lighter beds. Also, buying used gets you more bang for the buck.

I haven't submitted for the serial card yet but looking at the number, features and condition, it's late '80's with hard ways, wide ratio (70 feed) dual tumbler gear box, D1-4 large bore camlock spindle with a 5c drawbar. It also has a taper attachment and coolant system.

I has a lantern tool post so I'll be looking to get a BXA for it first off, don't know if I'll go Dorian, Aloris or import but wedge type for sure as the plunger style doesn't re-index as reliably. I checked the spindle clearance and it's in spec so I don't have to play with shims. It runs quiet in back gears as well as high speed. It has a 2 speed 2HP 3 phase motor so I have to decide if I want to run a VFD or get a rotary converter. (Have I mentioned how much I miss having 3 phase on the pole outside the shop?) I like the VFD on the step pulley J head but on the lathe I'm so used to the instant reverse of 3 phase, and with a cam lock I don't have to worry about spinning the chuck off, we'll see.

More to come,

Tom P1060227.JPG
 

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If you are going to put in a VFD, I would highly recommend Toshiba drives. It would most likely be best to run it in torque mode. Stay away from Allen Bradley, as their sine wave is real choppy which creates a lot of noise when running motor leads a longer distance. Automation Direct and Eaton have some fairly inexpensive drives, but you get what you pay for.

In my opinion, I'd go with a NEMA 4X drive and run S.O. cord for the leads and skip the enclosure, fan and filter.
 

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Nice. :bigthumb:
 

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If you are going to put in a VFD, I would highly recommend Toshiba drives. It would most likely be best to run it in torque mode. Stay away from Allen Bradley, as their sine wave is real choppy which creates a lot of noise when running motor leads a longer distance. Automation Direct and Eaton have some fairly inexpensive drives, but you get what you pay for.

In my opinion, I'd go with a NEMA 4X drive and run S.O. cord for the leads and skip the enclosure, fan and filter.
I've had no problems with my AB's.
 

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You got a gem there. Lots of good features with the camlock, 5c and taper attachment. Dorian and Aloris seem near identical to me and are fantastic. I don't bother with coolant on toolroom lathes although sometimes I need to let work cool before doing a semi finish and then finish cut on close diameters. I usually run Mitsubishi Carbide in stainless geometries for all steel grades and better suited inserts for aluminum. Don't care to hand grind cutters anymore unless I need special profiles. What horsepower is the spindle motor on that? You did real well!
 

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I've had no problems with my AB's.
I've been integrating and designing/building automated systems for over 20 years. Most of that time I used AB drives, however once I had to run motor leads over 25', things got wonky. Here to find out AB drives need a line conditioner if running leads that far. It cost as much as the drive. I scoped the output and found it to be absolutely crazy. I searched out many different drives, scoped them all, and found Toshiba to be the best. But, that's just my experience.
 

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Hey Tonton,

I install a fair amount of A-B Drives. I like them. Other than a period of bad capacitors in them from the factory, which is China, I had very little issues with them and great local vendor support. I never install a drive without first installing a 3% Drive Line Reactor. Seems to cushion the crappy utility power. With them, I never have faults specially while the drive is idle. I never any issues with longer leads, but most of the drives I deal with are HVAC systems, water pumps, and other applications that precision like machining, is required. Have you every used reactors AFTER the drive?

I ran into a situation not too long ago and reactors was recommend before and after the drives. Was not sure way. Can't remember what the application was. Any thoughts?
 

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Hey there Union schnauzer,

I've only ever needed to install line reactors before the VFD.

From the interwebs "A line reactor acts not only as a current-limiting device, but it also filters the waveform and attenuates electrical noise and transients associated with the system.*"

The only thing I can think of requiring another reactor after the drive is for redundancy in a situation where critical systems like a centrifuge or delicate lab equipment was being used.
 

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I can honesty say ,that is a nice looking piece of machinery,,,,,,besides that, the rest of the posting have no idea what you guys are talking about.:banghead::banghead::banghead: But I will say sounds like some of you know you're doing or a lot of BS.:lol::lol: sorry..:lol:
 

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Seems to me it was on a cooling tower. It was an ABB drive. Not sure if they was concerned about noise/voltage returning from the motor.

Don't mean to hijack this thread. I like gather information from other guys in the trenches.

isaac
 

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Yeah Tom, very cool! What swing and length?
 

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"no coconuts involved..."

Are you suggesting that machinery migrates?

Congrats on the lathe--looks like a nice one. Made when America was strong.:usa
 

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I ran into a situation not too long ago and reactors was recommend before and after the drives. Was not sure way. Can't remember what the application was. Any thoughts?
Seems to me it was on a cooling tower. It was an ABB drive. Not sure if they was concerned about noise/voltage returning from the motor.

Don't mean to hijack this thread. I like gather information from other guys in the trenches.

isaac
Isaac, it could have been the distance between the VFD and the cooling tower fans. I've had to do this a few times as well.


As far as the lathe - very cool. :thumbup1gif:

And like ET said, way beyond my skill range. I am very impressed with what you machinists' can do with one of those.
 

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I can understand it when your motor is 100 ft of wire or more from the drive. Which is rare for most of my installations. Usually I try to keep wire length under 20 ft. VFD's can cause some heating and other damage to motors when extended distances.

Line reactors after the drive seem to do much the same as they do before drive in shorter wire lengths. When motors are so close I wondered why they suggest the second line reactor like the cooler tower example (under 10 ft). The benefits of Line Reactors are far out way the cost of the labor and material. Just seems a bit redundant.

Thanks for the input.

isaac
 

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Modern traction elevators that use an AC motor usually have reactors either in the controller or internal to the drive. I've had to retrofit older machines with ferrite rings to help with smoothing. They work pretty well.
 

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Ever tried running twisted pairs for the wiring in lieu of a reactor?

I've never run leads longer than a few feet on a VFD, so I'm not exposed to the problem you've encountered. I did find that the VFDs confuse the digital electric meter in a good way and it runs backwards when I'm running my mills or lathe (my CNC runs an AB VFD as does my manual mill). I don't remember what brand 10hp VFD I have on the lathe.

Sure beats the snot out of my 10hp RPC which was never happy switching between my lathe and manual mill. One's 7.5hp and the other is 2 - balance wasn't possible and boy did my electric meter spin!
 

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Ever tried running twisted pairs for the wiring in lieu of a reactor?

I've never run leads longer than a few feet on a VFD, so I'm not exposed to the problem you've encountered. I did find that the VFDs confuse the digital electric meter in a good way and it runs backwards when I'm running my mills or lathe (my CNC runs an AB VFD as does my manual mill). I don't remember what brand 10hp VFD I have on the lathe.

Sure beats the snot out of my 10hp RPC which was never happy switching between my lathe and manual mill. One's 7.5hp and the other is 2 - balance wasn't possible and boy did my electric meter spin!
Looks to me like you need to run those A LOT!
 

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Worn out spindle on mill = $2,000 Worn out gear box on lathe = ? Voest no longer makes them, and my lathe was $25,000 new in 1974 (I know a guy who bought one then). In today's money, that's like $100K. :eek:hmy:

I'll stick to paying the $120/mo power bill. Running the machines doesn't make up for the wife's excessive dependence on A/C, it just has a noticeable impact on what it costs us. If I run my shop A/C at the same time, it still goes up. :(
 

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I did find that the VFDs confuse the digital electric meter in a good way and it runs backwards when I'm running my mills or lathe (my CNC runs an AB VFD as does my manual mill).
Got to be a bunch of little "transient beasties" running around on the waveform of the input AC if you looked at them
with a scope.
Some "tronics" down the line don't like them.:lol:
 
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