I’m surprised that ram is not part of that since they are selling their own product and should be responsible for testing the end product as well. Maybe I missed where they were part of it because there was a big ad blocking some of it.

I also didn’t see where they’re making them buy them all back like they did the VW’s. I’m sure a lot of senators were selling stock right before this.

 

I saw this yesterday on TFL Truck.

Dieselgate 2.0 @ TFL Truck

In my opinion there's no way this was an unintentional oversight. $1.7 Billion settlement could potentially bankrupt Cummins depending upon how this shakes out. To put it another way, if they're operating on a net 10% profit they would need to generate $17 Billion just to cover the penalty.

 

Using bruising regulatory and legal tactics to force vehicle propulsion choice?

The soviets did that stuff and called it wrecking.

If you can't sell them EVs, jack up the cost of the other vehicles through regulation or expensive litigation. More of the "death by a thousand cuts" judicio-political technique.

Anyway, the pendulum theory is often applied. What is now is not guaranteed to be that way always. Eventually people will step in and push back against that religion.

 

The article says Ram Stellantis had no comment or response about the situation

 

From Cummins website
“
Cummins expects to record a charge of approximately $2.04 billion in the fourth quarter of 2023 to resolve these and other related matters involving approximately one million pick-up truck applications in the United States. Of this amount, approximately $1.93 billion relates to payments that are expected to be made in the first half of 2024. The balance reflects our best estimate of related expenses that will impact cash flow in future periods. The company is in a strong financial position with existing liquidity and access to capital to satisfy obligations associated with the settlements, support ongoing operations, and execute its growth strategy.”

Cummins reaches agreement in principle to settle regulatory proceedings regarding its emissions certification and compliance process for pick-up truck applications

investor.cummins.com

 

I wonder who's pocket that 1.7 billion is going in and what boondoggle it will be used for?


Quote from the article:
Cummins continues to invest in clean technologies, manufacturing and electric vehicles and plans to jointly invest billions in the coming years as part of its "decarbonization journey."

Decarbonization journey? Nice spin. Not buying it though.

 

I wonder who's pocket that 1.7 billion is going in and what boondoggle it will be used for?


Quote from the article:
Cummins continues to invest in clean technologies, manufacturing and electric vehicles and plans to jointly invest billions in the coming years as part of its "decarbonization journey."

Decarbonization journey? Nice spin. Not buying it though.

You'll generally see California close to the head of the line. I won't get into politics but this POTUS and his AG are no friend to the automotive industry when it comes to internal combustion technology..................but EV's are A-OK.

 

In the end the consumer will be paying the fine and then some.

 

Great......my truck is running fine and I get 20+ MPG. Now they're gonna screw with it I'm more than sick of this emissions crap!

 

According to an AP article it says this has been ongoing since 2019. So maybe not political in the sense it’s being portrayed?

“In a Friday release about the agreement, Cummins said it does not admit any wrongdoing, noting the company “has seen no evidence that anyone acted in bad faith.”

Cummins added that it “cooperated fully” with regulators. The company also pointed to actions dating back to 2019, including a previous recall of 2019 Ram 2500 and 3500 trucks and now-initiated recall of 2013-2018 Ram 2500 and 3500 trucks.”

 

Saw this last night too.

EPA had been out of control for years. IMO.

I know my 2015 Cummins will not be getting any of these BS emissions recalls.
All this type of recall will do, is hurt my fuel mileage, increase my DEF usage, and likely degrease power.

I agree, if Cummins survives this. The cost simply will get passed on to the public. Rather you own a Cummins or buy a new one or not. Their engines are in all sorts of trucks and equipment, equipment that Is directly involved in putting food on every Americans table, among so many other things that effects everything in our modern way of life.
Those cost with get passed on to everyone, just how it works.

 

Its not the EPA that is out of control, in this case it is Cummins.

“The types of devices we allege that Cummins installed in its engines to cheat federal environmental laws have a significant and harmful impact on people’s health and safety,"

They installed hardware to make it seem like the engine was producing lower emissions. That is fraud. The EPA doesn't make up rules, these are laws enacted by Congress. What makes this even worse, is that we all saw VW do this exact same thing and got hammered. Why the hell would Cummins risk this same result? It's insane.

This isn't some sort of political hit job. Cummins really screwed up. It's unfortunate that the EPA has a bad reputation, because they are truly one of the best things that our Gov does for us. Creating the EPA is one of the greatest achievements of Richard Nixon's administration. I don't want to live with terrible air and water quality.

 

Hopefully Cummins doesn't join CAT in no longer making diesel engines. The regulations are so far out of hand its ridiculous.

But with that said I think manufactures should lean more towards reliability rather than constantly trying to push as much power as possible. I think these modern engines have more than enough power but still people are obsessed with more. I remember when we got by perfectly fine with 3/4 ton pickups having 200hp and 300lb ft of torque. Now its double or triple that and people trash on any truck that doesn't make atleast 1,000+ lb ft of torque.

 

Hopefully Cummins doesn't join CAT in no longer making diesel engines. The regulations are so far out of hand its ridiculous.

Unlike CAT, engines are about it for Cummins.

 

When I left, JEP was doing natural gas. I think this year they mentioned starting something for electric.

 

I’m surprised that ram is not part of that since they are selling their own product and should be responsible for testing the end product as well. Maybe I missed where they were part of it because there was a big ad blocking some of it.

I also didn’t see where they’re making them buy them all back like they did the VW’s. I’m sure a lot of senators were selling stock right before this.

Senators and higher government ranking dollar suckers.

I wonder who's pocket that 1.7 billion is going in and what boondoggle it will be used for?


Quote from the article:
Cummins continues to invest in clean technologies, manufacturing and electric vehicles and plans to jointly invest billions in the coming years as part of its "decarbonization journey."

Decarbonization journey? Nice spin. Not buying it though.

I'd say the boondoggle is battery powered cars.

 

Has “The Merrick” spent any time researching the whole exhaust cycle? Especially the regeneration portion?
What a boon for DPF manufacturers and DEF producers. Not every idea that comes out of Europe is a good one. Follow the money.

 

The little pickup engines are small potatoes in the big picture of who Cummins makes engines for ...

 

That fine will certainly reverse this (mythical) global warming. In fact it's working already. We're supposed to get snow tomorrow. Fines are so effective!

 

I know this is difficult (if not impossible), but can we please keep politics out of this thread so we don't have to move it?

 

That one might be a tall order!

 

If so who will build the 10’s of thousands of diesel engines we need every year. Solyndra?

 

The truck in the future will run on sunshine........and lollipops.

 

And one private jet flying a politician cross country emits more pollution than your diesel truck in its lifetime.......

 

It seems more zS and less truth with every comment on the EPA. Unregulated and how. Ridiculous regs that actually harm the environment but add serious cost to the consumer. Some of you need to ask yourself why have a dpf to catch soot and other hard particles for say a week then blow it out the stack in 20-30 minutes. How is that helping you breathe better???

 

I mourn the loss of Cat as an on-highway engine builder. Historically got 20-40% better fuel economy than competitors depending upon terrain. That’s before 2007. That’s a lot of trucks that you didn’t need in your fleet to achieve the same result.

 

I have never read the technical reason on how Cummins was “cheating”. I picture them saying under certain conditions, say highway cruising the EGR can turn off. The epa says you can’t do that. I don’t know what happened and I suspect we never will but I suspect it’s not as simple as Cummins committing actual fraud but it wouldn’t surprise me either.

 

After VW was made a poster child for the EPA why would any automaker even think of doing anything remotely similar? I'm guessing this is more a difference of opinion in interpretation between Cummins and the EPA as opposed to an outright cheat.

 

Cummins is a large supplier for my company, and one I work with closely on a regular basis. The details of this are so clouded, even industry folks can’t really understand, and my colleagues even have the opinion it’s a he said/she said situation. As far as we can tell, this is a situation where the feds have now started challenging manufacturers to build engines that don’t need exhaust aftertreatment and/or EGR systems to meet emissions. What isn’t stated here is that EVERY software calibration for on-road vehicles, whether gas or diese, goes through a certification and testing process with the EPA before it can be released. Every change in code must be disclosed to the EPA and explained why. So every one of these was signed off on. If it didn’t pass, then it should have been caught at the time. If it doesn’t pass, it goes back to calibration engineers with what didn’t pass. It costs roughly $120k for every software change to be certified, so it’s not something that you want to keep doing over and over. The real issue here is (like previously mentioned) that the EPA (among other agencies) has been granted power to create rules and regulations that do NOT go through the checks and balances of the bills brought up in the house.
Cummins has an annual revenue of around $23 billion for the last 5 years, has acquired Meritor (rear axles), has an active joint venture with Eaton for transmissions, and is purchasing or partnering with numerous large companies that work with electric, hybrid, and fuel cell powertrains. This fine is less than the net income for the shareholders. It will affect the diluted earnings per share for a couple years but they will recover. I’d be far more concerned about the precedent this sets…

 

I would love xxx to realize a $7,500 deduction from your taxes is a reduction. Let’s just call it that. Real money, my money (because I pay in more than that annually) and money lost to the U S Treasury. I just purchased a new ice powered Lincoln - and I didn’t see any reduction allowance on my taxes. One sided unilateral green xs which actually harms the environment!

 

The environmental impact
A train ride on the route with a block time of 3 hours and 30 minutes generates 7 pounds of carbon emissions per passenger. A bus ride for a 4-hour journey to Washington, DC, generates approximately 88 pounds of carbon emissions per passenger. A commercial flight with a flying time of 90 minutes plus additional time for security and checks causes 174 pounds of carbon emissions per passenger.
A private jet flight with a flight time of 90 minutes (time for security and checks is negligible) causes a whopping 7,913 pounds of carbon emissions per passenger. Doing the math, the emissions per passenger from the private jet travel on the route are more than 45 times that of the commercial flight. Private jet travel output is nearly 90 times greater than the bus ride. Lastly, private jet emissions are over 1,130 times greater than that of a train ride.

Average American: 19 tons of carbon per year.
Average coast to coast flight on a commercial flight: 1-3 tons per passenger.
Average coast to coast flight on a private jet: 21 tons.
So a private jet flight across the USA releases about as much carbon on the atmosphere as an average American does in a whole year. And that's a tall bar to jump already.


Data from the non-governmental organization Transport & Environment shows that private jets are up to 14 times more polluting than commercial planes per passenger, and up to 50 times more polluting than trains. That's because, in just one hour, a single private jet can emit two metric tons of carbon dioxide.

 

I have to laugh at these numbers.....
A private jet does not burn 7900 lbs worth of fuel in 90min, so how can it produce than that in carbon emissions?
Unless that private jet is a 757...lol!!!

In fact an average private jet holds 1000gal of fuel. Ie the whole fuel tank is less than 7900lbs.... and a lot of that weight is hydrogen - its not all carbon!... and that will fly the private jet for many hours... not 90 minutes. And the jet will have 4 passengers, so the "per passenger" number is nowhere near 7900 lbs.

I guess the basket-weaving-class grads that come up with this math in all those "non goverbmental organizations" need to buy themselves better calculators. Or maybe they should just stick to basket-weaving and leave this math stuff to people that know that 2+2 is actually equal to 4

LMAO

Cheers!!!!

 

If so who will build the 10’s of thousands of diesel engines we need every year. Solyndra?

Japan will be happy to do that.

$1.7 billion isn’t going to bankrupt them.

No but just because they earn it doesn’t mean it should be redistributed. It still hurts the company and stock holders. And yes I know you know that and it was a different point than you were trying to make.

 

Japan will be happy to do that.





No but just because they earn it doesn’t mean it should be redistributed. It still hurts the company and stock holders. And yes I know you know that and it was a different point than you were trying to make.

China or India or South Korea would be a few other options for building diesel engines.

It’s not real clear how they were cheating or what they were actually doing. If they knowingly broke the rules for a competitive advantage they should be punished. I’d imagine there’s some type of formula for coming up with the amount of the fine. Nearly $2 billion is a lot of money but in perspective it would be like the average guy paying a $10,000 fine. It’s meant to hurt a little.