Well you did a good job on it, that's a bummer. Seems like these cylinders should be designed to handle that type of use, but apparently not.

 

Thank you for the post BillieS

 

Yeah, thanks. I think.

Pretty sure this is a club I do not want to join.......... however I have all the operator error inexperience to be a highly qualified candidate.

 

Bummer. That sucks. I would think that the cylinder specs would be sized so the hydraulic pressure is below what is needed for the material to fail like that (i.e. go into bypass before failure).

Rob

 

You might consider replacing the rod seal too.... If not all of them since the cylinder will be apart. No sense / cents trying to save a few pennies.

 

Any hydraulic shop worth it's salt will replace all the seals and wipers while it is apart.

 

Make sure you ask for that shaft back - that's the kind of 'trophy' that needs to hang on the wall in your barn/garage/shop.

 

Show it and the bill to your idiot BIL when he wants to borrow your setup.

My neighbor borrowed my box blade and bent all the scarifiers. That cost him about $200. Paying attention while operating was too much to ask apparently.

 

The hydralics could never do that unless poorly designed. What i envison is the bucket in a hole extended and you back up the tractor.....or is it pull forward? I would get on the horn to the JD rep anyway and hope you can work something out. That took a lot of force

 

I envision him takeing a scoup around/under the stump fully curled ....hooking a outside tooth on a root ......then using the boom lift to try to pull it up out of the hole....still shouldnt happen ever...... i have engaged immovable items like solid rock with a full size backhoe and yes something will give but never a bucket rod ....usually its a tooth or a weak hydraulic line or seal.....i blew a dozer angle cylinder aged hose a couple of days ago by catching one edge of the blade on solid rock

 

Welcome to the Club, my 485 actuator bent the exact same way. Argued with Jd that there was in fact a heat treating issue with this piston rod, and funny how mine bent just after the warranty, and was told the exact same thing. They refused to warranty mine, so purchased an after market cylinder up here in canada for $88 bucks. Have been using that actuator on the backhoe for nine years now, digging the foundation for my new house, and also for digging trenches for my underground power and water lines. Not so much as a leak.
Best Regards
Curtis ,President of the Canadian actuator curving society,

 

[/QUOTE]

Welcome to the Club, my 485 actuator bent the exact same way. Argued with Jd that there was in fact a heat treating issue with this piston rod, and funny how mine bent just after the warranty, and was told the exact same thing. They refused to warranty mine, so purchased an after market cylinder up here in canada for $88 bucks. Have been using that actuator on the backhoe for nine years now, digging the foundation for my new house, and also for digging trenches for my underground power and water lines. Not so much as a leak.
Best Regards
Curtis ,President of the Canadian actuator curving society,

Where did you get your cylinder from, or at least manufacturer and P/N?

 

My backhoe doesn't have enough power to do that! I just rebuilt a large cylinder on a TH outrigger. It's easy to do, especially on a cylinder that small.

 

Sorry to see this happen to you. I have experienced 3 bent bucket curl cylinder piston rods so far on my 270B. All 3 have been replaced under warranty, and the last replacement I got was the upgraded cylinder with increased 1.25" diameter piston rod, like they are now using on all their new 270B backhoes. I have yet to install it, but I will upon the next use of the backhoe. These are some of my "Trophy" pics.....lol. The last two pics are of a bent piston rod I actually straightened out using a six foot long steel pry bar. That cylinder is still on my machine and working fine believe it or not!
Sincerely

 

Sorry to see this happen to you. I have experienced 3 bent bucket curl cylinder piston rods so far on my 270B. All 3 have been replaced under warranty, and the last replacement I got was the upgraded cylinder with increased 1.25" diameter piston rod, like they are now using on all their new 270B backhoes. I have yet to install it, but I will upon the next use of the backhoe. These are some of my "Trophy" pics.....lol. The last two pics are of a bent piston rod I actually straightened out using a six foot long steel pry bar. That cylinder is still on my machine and working fine believe it or not!
Sincerely
View attachment 756720
View attachment 756721
View attachment 756722 View attachment 756723

Yours look like they were bent from the use of the bucket. I can envision yours bending but thinking of of Billie S's picture the only possibility that comes to mind is backing into or being hit by something. Could this have happened when you were away from your tractor. ........If your sure an outside force did not cause this incident and the JD rep, not the dealer, the JD factory rep, refuses to look into the matter inform them your gonna have the ram tested for hardness. There are many labs that can do this for you. JD is not likely to want the ram tested by an independant lab and i would not be surprised if they change their tune at this point.

 

You guys call those bent...I’ll show you bent! [emoji23]
270A that’s 4 years old and has taken out some monster stumps. This happened on a much smaller one I was pulling in August. I replaced the rod and threw in a new seal kit, good as new now for now...if I’d only used this to dig holes this wouldn’t have happened IMHO. I’ve done way more than my little tractor was meant to do. Just my .02...

May your cylinder rods stay straight [emoji6]

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

You guys call those bent...I’ll show you bent! [emoji23]
..

There's always an overachiever in every group!

 

Must be chromed miid steel rod!🤣

 

With all the bent cylinders, I call BS. No way in H E L L should those piston rods be bending like that.
The cylinders are green.
Literally

 

With all the bent cylinders, I call BS. No way in H E L L should those piston rods be bending like that.
The cylinders are green.
Literally

The fact that some folks are getting the cylinder replaced with a different part number that has a larger rod diameter tells me someone knows there is a problem.

 

Has anyone made a list of which backhoes that are being affected by the "bent rod syndrome"? What about the older models like the 7 series?

 

As usual.......I wonder if the cylinder may be getting Bumped on a stump or whatever while under pressure sending it in what seems to be the same direction....Towards the stick. Hard to believe that they would all bend the same way....why not sideways or away from stick.
Likely not......just an observation.

Seems like maybe just the wrong cyl. for the application...........hmmmmm

 

Geometry Duke. Simple as that.

 

JD will not over the rod. I am having it rebuilt at a reputable hyd. shop. Using their rods. If that fixes the problem it will then be obvious that the JD rods are soft. Rods of this size should not bend, period. Or the Hydro's should go into bypass. I would almost understand if I was abusing the BH. But it is just normal usage. Total rebuilt cost is $450 with new rod and seals. JD wants $455 just for the rod. LOL, to think this was going to be my last tractor for retirement.

 

The reason the rods always bend towards the stick is basic physics. First off, the reason for them bending at all is the same. Look at ALL the pictures of the bent rods. The rods are fully extended or really close to fully extended. This is when the rod is at its weakest! You can't put a 75%+ extended rod under full load constantly and expect everything to be OK. The reason they all bend towards the stick is because the forces on the bucket transfer to the pin, which transfers to the end of the rod. Think about what direction that pin is turning when you un-curl/dump your bucket. There is a slight amount more rotation towards the stick than there is away from it which is why it always seems to go towards the stick. Dry pins certainly do not help matters any, either. If it bends away from the stick, THEN it might be a heat treating issue, outside forces (something got between the stick and rod), or just reaming on it while properly greased and that's the side that was weaker (heat treat wasn't even, porosity in the metal, contaminates, etc.).

The most common time I hear of rods bending, is when people are digging stumps. I always see people hooking roots and expecting the bucket to break through it. If you hook a root, DO NOT try to force it if it doesn't break before you can react. Instead, move your bucket further away from the stump and try again where the root is thinner. Keep doing this until you find an area where the root breaks free from the ground with little effort. Yes, you end up with a bigger hole, but at least you don't have a bent bucket cylinder! If nearby utility lines, or trees you want to keep, prevent you digging further from the stump, dig down further in front of and behind it and cut the root with an axe or chain saw instead (or try loosening the stump on all the other sides and you might be able to pull it out by pulling on the stump with a mostly dumped bucket)... it's more work, but it's a heck of a lot cheaper! Eventually we will start seeing sensors that reduce bucket breakout force once the cylinder is more than 60% extended, then you'll stop seeing bent rods. You should only be using the max breakout force in the first half of your rod's travel while the second half is solely for keeping material in the bucket.

Note: This is also true for front loader bucket rods. Back-dragging with excessively extended bucket rods and hitting something like a stump will do the exact same thing! A wise operator once told me: You make things smooth going forward, you make them pretty going backward.

TLDR; If it bends towards the stick, it's your fault. If it bends away, then it's more likely to be JD's.

 

You can't put a 75%+ extended rod under full load constantly and expect everything to be OK.

Yes you can. Or rather, you should be able to. Whatever "full load" is, these things should be built to handle it. If you manage to exceed "full load," there should be a failsafe. Just like you have shearbolts or slipclutches on drivelines, you have relief valves on hydraulics, and they should always, ALWAYS, be the weak point in the system. Anything less is incompetent design.

 

The rods would not bend if engineered correctly...
I've never bent a cylinder ram on my case backhoes digging up anything and everything.
JD has screwed up on these hobby tractor backhoe rams.
Too small of rod for the application ... sad to say.

 

well said. JD even admitted there error when they started replacing bent rams with a thicker version. But this case is different, look at the way this ram is bent compared to others in the forum and you will see what i mean

 

It's always easier to blame others than it is to look at your own mistakes. Think about what you were doing when you bent the cylinder. Were you TUGGING on something, or just digging in the dirt? There are a lot of forces at work when you're torquing on a stump or root. When you suddenly hook something, the hydraulics will hesitate if you're not just reaming on the sticks trying to beat that stump out of the ground. When you ream on the sticks, you go from low load to max load in a split second. In some cases, "max load" can actually be exceeded for a split second before the relief valve engages (rules of inertia apply). You're basically doing the equivalent of hooking your pickup to a 5-ton block that it can pull, but instead of pre-loading the chain before preceding to pull it, you just floor it and the chain snaps. Big enough chain, it might not snap the first time, but do that enough times and it will. It's called metal fatigue.

It's always stumps or other hard/compacted objects, too. You ever notice that?

"so I started digging out a small stump at my dad's house " - this thread
"How did I do it? I’m not really sure whether I over (or hyper) extended the backhoe while pulling on a small stump" - thread on MTF
"Stumping a small tree with a crotch in it." - thread on TBN
"if I’d only used this to dig holes this wouldn’t have happened IMHO. I’ve done way more than my little tractor was meant to do." - this thread

People don't take the time to dig them out properly. I've gotten impatient before, myself; but then I remind myself what a bent rod looks like, take a deep breath and go back to work in a calm and collected manner, digging at dirt rather than tugging at roots, rocks, or concrete that won't give. And it's not just JD this happens to. This happens to Kubota, Mahindra, Massey, etc. You just hear about it more on JD because it's the most popular sub-compact/compact brand with a backhoe.

And NO! Backhoes were not designed to dig up stumps, concrete, or any other object compacted into the earth. They were designed to dig up the dirt around said objects so that you could then remove them. If you think they're designed for anything other than digging up dirt, then I'm sorry, but I can't fix stupid. I can only educate against ignorance. Can they be used for doing those things? Yes, but it doesn't mean it's designed to do that. You can use a knife to pry on a latch. Doesn't mean it was designed for that, and you're more than likely going to break the tip off the knife. That doesn't make it the knife manufacturer's fault, that makes it your fault. Live with it and, more importantly, learn from it and move on.

 

The hydraulic system should go into bypass before any physical damage is done, otherwise there is a design flaw. I don't care if you're digging dirt, water, a rock or a stump. I just read somewhere that a cylinder was bent digging out a rock the size of a beach ball, so is one supposed to stop using the machine in such case if they run into this during a dirt digging project? The problem is physics, combination of forces happening at once. One other thing, JD promotes digging stumps. It's in their advertising complete with a youtube how to vid and a 260 BH!

Besides, JD knows there is a problem. It's always the same cylinder, the same amount of cylinder extended and the same style of bend on every case.

 

Been without internet service for a while. I picked up my cylinder last Thursday. The hydraulic shop said the metal in the cylinder had to be soft to cause this problem. They would not go into detail and I really didn't care. They did replace the shaft with a bit harder metal that was originally in it. I have not used the BH yet as I have been doing many other things. I have all intentions of going back to that same stump, it will be moved. Cost to fix $490. JD wanted $455 just for the shaft and that was not the labor to rebuild it.

For those arm chair quarterbacks, I mentioned that I may have done something but noting unusual than my normal usage of the BH. This is not my first rodeo with tractors nor backhoes. It is also not my first round with stumps. I am very versed in removing stumps. So much so I can almost tell you what you need to do to dig out the stump. i.e. dig wide, dig deep or some you have to dig wide and deep. The tree stump I was trying to remove is a ornamental pear tree about 6" - 8" in diameter, not the best rooted tree in this area. Their main root goes straight down and deep. Closer to the surface there are small feeder roots that would have never bent this cylinder. For the most part ALL trees is to begin digging out almost to the edge of what would normally be the tree limbs line then moving inward to the stump. Making sure you go deep enough that the stump practically falls over by removing it's foundation. No, I never left the tractor, no there was no external force of any kind and I certainly never drove the tractor with the BH bucket in the ground. The ground right now is very dry and very hard, not sure if that helped or not.

With that said, all is good and I will go back to my normal operations around the farm.

 

Sounds like a good system you have for removing stumps. Thanks for the details. Will be interested in hearing your evaluation of the BH operation now its repaired.

 

Remove A Tree Stump Using A Backhoe, Chainsaw, and Shovel

This video shows how to remove a tree stump using a John Deere 1025R Compact Utility Tractor, a 260 Backhoe, a chainsaw, and a shovel.

tipsnotebook.deere.com

 

That video is funny. They suggest you use a shovel to clear away clay to make it easier for the BH. The reason for the BH is so you don't have to dig the stump out by hand. WAS FUNNY THANKS FOR THE LAUGH

 

Yes...and just use your nice sharp Stihl chainsaw and cut those bigger roots in the dirt...ha ha..

 

someone makes an attachment for the BH that saws roots?

 

Ran across the video as I was researching a backhoe for my 1025r. Really want one, but man they are $$$

 

I ordered one with my tractor and never thought i would use it much. Paid for itself in a week digging postholes removing stumps and trenching..

 

I must be abusing the heck out of my backhoe. I have dug dozens of stumps and never used a shovel or chain saw to complete the removal. Just the 1025r and the 12" bucket. I use a ripper tooth on the bigger stumps with bigger roots when I want to keep the size of the hole smaller.

 

chuckle....thats the attachment i mentioned earlier but couldn't think of its name, a ripper tooth. Gotta order one of those. Can you imagine owning a back hoe and using a shovel to do the excavating to make it easier for the back hoe??....you gotta be kidding. I can't count the amount of roots i have torn up with the BH and never bent a ram or any other thing. I have had it lift the front of the tractor off the ground more than once

 

And in the video they say to use a chain saw and cut the big roots?
What a way to wipe out a nice Stihl saw!
Stupid advice IMO.

 

Thats what BH's are for

 

At least hoe rams that don't bend like spaghetti..

 

Cheap China steel probably, soft. I bought a 270B ram for my 260B because JD wouldn't do jack for me. No more bending for me.