[0tt0befree]

I'll all for different level of choices out there. Some people use their tractor and implements 7 days a week, others use them maybe once a month. Myself I use my tractor maybe once every other week or so. Just bought a new Sothern (Rebrand Titan) 5' rotary cutter for $1200. Do I expect the same quality and cut from say a Wood or Brush Hog cutter that cost double that, No, but I'll probably only use the cutter 3 times a year to mow some pastures so it will do the job I bought it for. If you expect to use stuff often and hard, don't buy cheap. Sometimes you get what you pay for but also sometime stuff is over inflated. It's best to look around and do some research before making purchases, I do it with just about anything I buy.

Good point and applies to all sorts of equipment. You can pay $8 or $10 thousand for a commercial grade zero turn mower, $5K for a pretty good residential mower, or maybe $3K for a mower that will be just fine for your suburban lot. That mower probably wouldn't last a month for a lot of commercial guys but you aren't cutting grass 60 hours a week and a commercial mower would be overkill. I have 6 acres roughly 3/4 of which get cut regularly (or not. I need more in a zero turn than the guy with a suburban lot. Maybe I could justify a commercial grade mower because I am hard on the one I have but I am getting buy with a pretty sturdy residential mower in the $5K range and thinking of getting a compact or subcompact tractor. I have a driveway to maintain, some woods/field that could use bushhogging, and something more than the small tiller I have would be nice to expand the garden.

One thing that perplexes me about buying one of those green or orange tractors is virtually everything is optional and extra. I mean really should you have to pay extra for a brush guard? Why isn't a third function hydraulic line standard these days? What's with an arm rest being a big leap up and why do you have a proprietary quick hitch that only works with your implements? I have $5K green garden tractor (an oversized lawn mower) and frankly I am not really impressed with JD. The mower deck cut well but it was the biggest pain in the lister to take off if you had to replace a belt or blades. I finally went out and bought a zero turn. I still use the Deere to haul a cart around but that is it. The mowing deck sits in a horse stall.

Needless to say as a consumer I like the Summit approach of including so much stuff as standard. I hope they get off the ground but it looks like a bad time for a launch and I'd be afraid to plunk down cash for a new line of tractor in a crowded market with a recession going on.

 

[0tt0befree]

Summit Tractor web site: Coming Soon | Summit Tractors
Specifications | Summit Tractors

I saw $20K on their website and considering you won't have to ad much if anything that is a hell of a deal. But as everyone points out where are you going to get service and parts and how long will they be around?

If you are getting a 50-60 HP tractor or above you are getting a Deere. If you are getting a 25 HP your are getting just another tractor made in China or Korea or Indonesia or elsewhere in Asia. It may be partially assembled here but the parts are from the lowest bidder.

 

[Kennyd]

If you are getting a 50-60 HP tractor or above you are getting a Deere.

Not necessarily, many of the larger E series are built in India.

If you are getting a 25 HP your are getting just another tractor made in China or Korea or Indonesia or elsewhere in Asia. It may be partially assembled here but the parts are from the lowest bidder.

But, in both cases you cite, both are still backed up by JD, a global company with a 1st class parts distribution network and dealers everywhere.

 

[0tt0befree]

You honk it when coming by the house so your wife can bring you another beer.


Just kidding, she’d throw it at me. But horns do have their place in a tractor.

If I want my wife to throw me a beer bottle I honk at the neighbor when she bends over. She aims for my head and has a good arm.

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

I saw $20K on their website

Can you provide a link to that? I have seen no mention of price anywhere on their site, nor in any of their videos.

 

[Pedals2Paddles]

I am constantly seeing people with pretty green brand new tractors complaining their local dealers are backed up weeks or months for service and parts. So lets not pretend that having to wait for parts and service is something you're immune to with a green tractor and only happens to these off-brand OEM machines.

Anyway, just seeing this thread so I haven't read all 5 pages. It looks like this will be manufactured by a reputable manufacturer that has been making reputable tractors globally for a very long time. So I highly doubt it will be junk, since they don't make junk. A small American company has partnered with ITL to configure a machine to their specs, branding it to their company. Really no different than Rural King's RK tractors made by TYM to RK's specs branded for RK. TYM doesn't make junk, so RK's tractors aren't junk.

Because this small American business has a very very low overhead cost, they can afford to pack the machine full of every accessory and add-on standard. And still cost remarkably less than the big boys. However the low overhead cost is because they do not have the dealer / service network to maintain. That's great if you don't need it. Might be ok if you need it and their parts/service plans meet your needs. And really bad if they can't keep up with parts and service availability now and in the long term.

That is what it is, and everyone needs to balance that risk vs reward. This will always be the case and will never change, ever. Summit and Rural King will never be as big and well equipped for service as Deere and Kubota. So if you're waiting for that to happen before buying, it won't. Make a risk-reward decision because it is what it is.

 

[0tt0befree]

Not necessarily, many of the larger E series are built in India.



But, in both cases you cite, both are still backed up by JD, a global company with a 1st class parts distribution network and dealers everywhere.

That is a fair point, but in my area there are lots of JD dealer locations but they are all owned by the same outfit. Just recently another big outfit opened a JD dealership location about 20 miles away. I don't know if the competition will help or hurt. JD sells everything from residential mowers in big box stores to gigantic and enormously expensive sugar cane harvesting equipment down in this part of the country. Can they really give that chunk of the market looking for compact or subcompact tractors they attention and innovation they want? I'm a little doubtful that the little guy is really getting his money's worth from either green or orange. They may be the best choice without necessarily being a good choice. I'd buy a real American tractor if there were such a thing.

 

[Rule292]

I saw $20K on their website and considering you won't have to ad much if anything that is a hell of a deal. But as everyone points out where are you going to get service and parts and how long will they be around?

If you are getting a 50-60 HP tractor or above you are getting a Deere. If you are getting a 25 HP your are getting just another tractor made in China or Korea or Indonesia or elsewhere in Asia. It may be partially assembled here but the parts are from the lowest bidder.

That's why people complaining about not getting their money's worth from Deere ought to watch what they're wishing for.

You'll get more tractor but more of it will be built with cheaper components from India or the far east.

BTW our compact tractors aren't "professional" tools they are built and marketed for homeowners or hobby farmers. They don't need to run 4500 hours pulling seeders or bailers or spend 40 hours a week during the summer cutting school lawns or athletic fields, they need to run a few hundred hours a year reliably.

And that the big two, Deere and Kubota, do. And they do it better than Kioti, Mahindra or LS/TYM.

 

[0tt0befree]

Can you provide a link to that? I have seen no mention of price anywhere on their site, nor in any of their videos.

I may have made that up. It does seem a little too good to be true and I can't find it on the website. In fact I'd be a little concerned that this tractor does not really exist. They might be following the Tesla model and selling stuff that hasn't actually been built and may never be built if they don't get enough orders.

 

[MTB98]

If you are getting a 50-60 HP tractor or above you are getting a Deere. If you are getting a 25 HP your are getting just another tractor made in China or Korea or Indonesia or elsewhere in Asia. It may be partially assembled here but the parts are from the lowest bidder.

Not necessarily, many of the larger E series are built in India.



But, in both cases you cite, both are still backed up by JD, a global company with a 1st class parts distribution network and dealers everywhere.

Kubota and Yanmar (Deere uses their engines too) are both Japanese companies, much different than Chinese or Indian or Indonesian companies. Similar to the Toyota and Honda of the tractor world.
Deere CUTs are assembled in the US with many USA made components. TTWT a has a video of the manufacturing faculty in Georgia.
Deere wells tractors all over the world and has an outstanding reputation and dealer network. That is very valuable.

 

[0tt0befree]

That's why people complaining about not getting their money's worth from Deere ought to watch what they're wishing for.

You'll get more tractor but more of it will be built with cheaper components from India or the far east.

BTW our compact tractors aren't "professional" tools they are built and marketed for homeowners or hobby farmers. They don't need to run 4500 hours pulling seeders or bailers or spend 40 hours a week during the summer cutting school lawns or athletic fields, they need to run a few hundred hours a year reliably.

And that the big two, Deere and Kubota, do. And they do it better than Kioti, Mahindra or LS/TYM.

Oh come on Deere doesn't make its own engines or transmissions or filters or belts or hydraulic lines or tires or screws and nuts and bolts and springs for that matter and neither do the other manufacturers. All that stuff is made by the lowest asian bidder these days and most of it is available outside the JD dealer network if you really look for it. What is true for car parts these days is true for tractor and other parts. If you have a part number you can probably cross reference it to the actual manufacturer thanks to the internet. The only essential the dealer has is a trained mechanic and depending on the problem even that might not be a necessity. How many people take their car to the dealer for repair work as opposed to their trusty local mechanic. You are going to find the same yanmar or iseki or mitsubishi engines in compact tractors from all the brands. What is the ratio of brands to actual manufacturers? How many brands does Agco have? How many brands does a comparatively small manufacturer like ITL have? Yeah I guess JD just makes JD but they don't make half the stuff in a JD tractor and sometimes hardly any of it. If all you want is a parts department you have the internet. I won't buy green just because they have a big dealer network and I won't buy a Summit just because it has a lot of features at a relatively low price.

You know one of the things that bugs me is the plastic hood on the small tractors. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with the plastic hood except that weight is a good thing in the front of a tractor. Why not put a metal hood on then? Instead they want to sell me more weights at lets face it an exorbitant price. It is a little thing but it just seems greedy.

I'd presume that the internal idea machine for an Indian brand tractor is a bit different than that of a US manufacturer. As a matter of fact, I know it is.

Their corporate culture is likely heavy on innovation, given they produce in a low cost/low wage country and sell to high wage countries. They don't have to worry about pinching pennies to make ever increasing revenue targets.

The US corporate culture is all about finding ways to do it "better and cheaper". Wanna make more money at your company? More cost saving suggestions!

I have worked with a lot of Indians in a different contect (IT) Thinking outside the box is not their forte. Building it strudier is more in their wheelhouse. Plus the culture is very top down. You really got to work at it to get them to tell you what they really think about your idiotic plan In the case of Mahindra it looks to me like build it with lots of steel not lots of bells and whistles is their thing and that makes sense because they sell a lot in the second and third world where stuff needs to last. I am down in Mississippi and there is a pretty significant Mahindra dealer network down here. They rival Kubota and JD around here as far as the number of dealers.

 

[Rule292]

Oh come on Deere doesn't make its own engines or transmissions or filters or belts or hydraulic lines or tires or screws and nuts and bolts and springs for that matter and neither do the other manufacturers. All that stuff is made by the lowest asian bidder these days and most of it is available outside the JD dealer network if you really look for it. What is true for car parts these days is true for tractor and other parts. If you have a part number you can probably cross reference it to the actual manufacturer thanks to the internet. The only essential the dealer has is a trained mechanic and depending on the problem even that might not be a necessity. How many people take their car to the dealer for repair work as opposed to their trusty local mechanic. You are going to find the same yanmar or iseki or mitsubishi engines in compact tractors from all the brands. What is the ratio of brands to actual manufacturers? How many brands does Agco have? How many brands does a comparatively small manufacturer like ITL have? Yeah I guess JD just makes JD but they don't make half the stuff in a JD tractor and sometimes hardly any of it. If all you want is a parts department you have the internet. I won't buy green just because they have a big dealer network and I won't buy a Summit just because it has a lot of features at a relatively low price.

You know one of the things that bugs me is the plastic hood on the small tractors. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with the plastic hood except that weight is a good thing in the front of a tractor. Why not put a metal hood on then? Instead they want to sell me more weights at lets face it an exorbitant price. It is a little thing but it just seems greedy.


I have worked with a lot of Indians in a different contect (IT) Thinking outside the box is not their forte. Building it strudier is more in their wheelhouse. Plus the culture is very top down. You really got to work at it to get them to tell you what they really think about your idiotic plan In the case of Mahindra it looks to me like build it with lots of steel not lots of bells and whistles is their thing and that makes sense because they sell a lot in the second and third world where stuff needs to last. I am down in Mississippi and there is a pretty significant Mahindra dealer network down here. They rival Kubota and JD around here as far as the number of dealers.

Go buy your Mahindra if you want. It's your cash and only you to make happy.

BTW I doubt their tractors are better than their coding or analysis.

Whether software or tractors, nothing is done in India or China because it's better. It's done there because it's cheaper.

 

[0tt0befree]

Not necessarily, many of the larger E series are built in India.



But, in both cases you cite, both are still backed up by JD, a global company with a 1st class parts distribution network and dealers everywhere.

With the way things are going I would be very afraid to be reliant on the Chinese supply chain for anything. It looks to me like they are hell bent on taking Taiwan, something easier said than done, but one consequence will be to totally disrupt trade with the USA for the foreseeable future. It is dawning on everyone that our dependence on cheap Chinese junk is a national security issue. I could see a near total trade embargo being put in place.

 

[0tt0befree]

Go buy your Mahindra if you want. It's your cash and only you to make happy.

BTW I doubt their tractors are better than their coding or analysis.

Whether software or tractors, nothing is done in India or China because it's better. It's done there because it's cheaper.

I agree that stuff is done in India and China mainly because it is cheaper, but I will vouch for Indian coders. They are good at what they do, just be sure you ask them for what you really want. A lot of "bad coding" traces back to idiot product managers. I am not thinking of buying a Mahindra but they look like very sturdy well built machines. If I were going to be plowing a New England rock garden sturdy would be a higher priority. The only time I see a rock is on vacation. OTH an amphibious tractor would work well in south Mississippi. Mud we got.

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

Yeah I guess JD just makes JD but they don't make half the stuff in a JD tractor and sometimes hardly any of it.

I'm not sure about things like hardware, but their SCUT/CUT "hard parts" (frames, castings, etc) are all made in Deere plants around the globe (many parts are still US made). For example, loaders and backhoes come from Deere in Mexico. The cast loader mounts on my 1025R come from Deere China. Some other heavy castings come from Deere India. Point being, Deere has their own global manufacturing and doesn't rely on 3rd party suppliers for the vast majority of these machines. They have total control over the manufacturing and quality processes.

 

[cc1999]

Anyone else think that 25hp Summit is closer in physical size to the 2025R?

It looks a little bigger then a 1025R or maybe it just has larger tires, which I realize is a big part of what a 2025R is.
Basically the current Gen2 2025R is a 1025R with 6" longer wheelbase to accommodate the larger tires it uses.
This summit machine looks to me like it is riding on tires about the same size as what comes on the GEN 2025R.

 

[Kjelli]

It looks to be the same size or close

 

[Tractor Tim]

Oh come on Deere doesn't make its own engines or transmissions or filters or belts or hydraulic lines or tires or screws and nuts and bolts and springs for that matter and neither do the other manufacturers. All that stuff is made by the lowest asian bidder these days

I can speak to hydraulic hoses and couplers for the JD line. They are NOT the ‘lowest Asian bidder’. Deere uses Gates hoses, and FASTER (Italian) couplers. Best you can buy in both cases.

The transaxles for the 1-series are made in South Carolina. I’m sure some offshore parts.

…and I don’t see how anyone can bad-mouth a Yanmar engine.

The 1025r is priced quite competitively.

Folks can badmouth the Deere all they want, but many times there IS a difference. To the extent uninformed customers don’t see it, so be it!

I have done my best to illustrate detailed comparisons.

Tim

 

[Dr Maphesto]

Folks can badmouth the Deere all they want, but many times there IS a difference. To the extent uninformed customers don’t see it, so be it!

I have done my best to illustrate detailed comparisons.

Tim

Some folks are simply unable to cypher the difference between price and value.

 

[Design12PF]

This forum is one of the reasons I choose a 1025. Green tractor talk has been a huge help. Are you going to get a community like we have for Summit tractor?