I like the setup. It looks nice and clean. I also like how its co trolled on tje same lever. Ive never used a grapple except on a skid steer but I like the looks of that. Im sure eventually Ill have one just not yet. Thanks for the pictures and info!

 

So that’s a 3rd scv controlled electronically buy a push button on joystick like a diverter? I thought all 3rd scv we’re operated by a lever for hydraulics and all diverters were controlled electronically. That’s cleanest setup I’ve seen. Really like where the bracket is so that it can be used for front or rear hydraulics. When you remove your loader is it just the extra 2 hydraulic lines you disconnect or do you have to unplug any wires. It’s a very interesting setup. By far my favorite I have seen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I was going to ask the same thing. Normally they are more like toggle switch and you select if you want the grapple function or dump/curl. Not sure on how this works but it looks really clean.

 

So how do you like your Model 3?

A coworker has been happy with his. He had it in to the shop for a few days and had a S for a loaner but said he liked the 3 better.

 

It not a diverter. It's an electrically operated SCV. Push the up button, the 3rd SCV opens in the up position. Push the down button, the 3rd SCV opens in the down position. Totally separate and independent of the other two SCVs for the loader/dump.

A diverter is an electrically operated valve that switches a single existing hydraulic circuit between two devices (dump and grapple is the usual).

 

Yeah that is what I was thinking when I was reading your description. How quick is it to operate compared to a normal "Analog" :laugh: SCV?

Can you swap your hoses around to use the joystick for grapple and the electronic one for dump/curl? That might be tricky to get used to but I wonder which way would be more efficient?

 

It is immediate full hydraulic flow when you push the buttons. I actually just ordered a $4 flow restrictor and some quick connects from KennyD to slow it down.

You could swap it around so the 3rd SCV buttons control the dump. But I think that would be very difficult to operate since you won't have any control over how fast it dumps. I'm actually not sure the hoses would even reach to do that.

 

For dump that might not matter much but I can see that being an issue when you are trying to level the bucket or jaws to scoop up more. I was just curious how it operated if it is a button for open/close and it is full flow which is sounds like it is, or more of an analog style where you can slowly move it like you can with a lever.

I guess the only bad thing I can think of is if you were trying to gently grab something. Thinking back to when the excavator was pulling up my sidewalk, he used the thumb to try and hold the cement slab in the bucket but a couple times grabbed it too hard and it broke. I don't think it would be a big issue but you don't have a ton of slow control short of maybe dropping RPM.

I still think I like that better than the diverter option though. It would be easier to use and like you said, can be used on the rear as well.

 

So it’s a true 3rd function. I have always heard that was not possible on these small machines is why everyone went with the diverter. That is leaps and bounds better in my opinion but your the only person I have ever seen with it. Can you get us some more info as far as part numbers for what you ordered?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

This is a start. Not sure if it is the full kit.

John Deere Selective Control Valve - BLV11143

That is the part number listed when you do a build of a 1025R on JD website.


EDIT: I was looking if you can get it for the 2025R since it is pretty much the same thing. You can but it had these notes.

3rd Function Selective Control Valve Option Code : BLV11156
Select Dealer for Price

Mid-mounted valve required for 3rd function loader applications. Requires Loader bundle BXX10210 (Third Function Hydraulic Kit) for sue with grapple bucket, 4 in 1 bucket and/or front blade. Not compatible with BLV10933 (Independent mower lift system).. If using with independent mower lift, also order BLV11115. Please reference the compatibility matrix located on the Value Selling Navigator for additional parts that might be needed.

 

Thanks. Sweet setup!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

These are the first really good images of the setup, but they detail exactly what my dealer told me when I ordered it for my 2025r (which has yet to be delivered). In addition to the grapple I plan on using the 3rd scv to power a chute deflector in the winter. No wires, no delicate actuators, and all from the comfort of a mauser cab.

My sell sheet shows a 3rd function SCV and a "third function hydraulic kit" for the loader.

 

The loader kit is the hydraulic lines and hoses that are actually attached to the loader. And the SCV kit is the what is actually on the tractor with the mid-mounted ports. They're separate because you can buy the 3rd SCV not even for anything to do with the loader.

I have the same model of grapple and the same 3rd scv on my 4066R. I would offer a couple tips that might save you some head aches later.

1. If you aren't using the 3rd scv and grapple, briefly actuate the 3rd scv at least once during the day that you are on your tractor. Do this to keep the scv from getting stuck. I had not used my grapple for a few months and went to press the button that actuates the 3rd scv and nothing happened. I found out these things get stuck if not used often. I was lucky mine finally started working, now I push the button each day I use my tractor (if not grappling). This does dead-head the hydraulics when there is no grapple attached, but it is too brief to harm your hydraulics.

2. When you remove the grapple from the FEL and disconnect the grapple hoses - take one end of one of the hoses coming from the grapple, and wrap a cloth around it and push the tip of the hydraulic connector against a hard metal object. This will release hydro fluid and pressure on the grapple cylinder (be careful - use a rag to catch the stream). If you don't release the pressure, when you try to reconnect the hoses, you will not be able to connect them because thermal expansion will cause super high pressure. Be sure to do this when the grapple is safely parked on the ground.

Excellent tips. Thanks! Would it be wise, unwise, or indifferent to connect the hoses on the grapple together to keep them clean?

 

I have the same model of grapple and the same 3rd scv on my 4066R. I would offer a couple tips that might save you some head aches later.

1. If you aren't using the 3rd scv and grapple, briefly actuate the 3rd scv at least once during the day that you are on your tractor. Do this to keep the scv from getting stuck. I had not used my grapple for a few months and went to press the button that actuates the 3rd scv and nothing happened. I found out these things get stuck if not used often. I was lucky mine finally started working, now I push the button each day I use my tractor (if not grappling). This does dead-head the hydraulics when there is no grapple attached, but it is too brief to harm your hydraulics.

2. When you remove the grapple from the FEL and disconnect the grapple hoses - take one end of one of the hoses coming from the grapple, and wrap a cloth around it and push the tip of the hydraulic connector against a hard metal object. This will release hydro fluid and pressure on the grapple cylinder (be careful - use a rag to catch the stream). If you don't release the pressure, when you try to reconnect the hoses, you will not be able to connect them because thermal expansion will cause super high pressure. Be sure to do this when the grapple is safely parked on the ground.

 

I have the same model of grapple and the same 3rd scv on my 4066R. I would offer a couple tips that might save you some head aches later.

1. If you aren't using the 3rd scv and grapple, briefly actuate the 3rd scv at least once during the day that you are on your tractor. Do this to keep the scv from getting stuck. I had not used my grapple for a few months and went to press the button that actuates the 3rd scv and nothing happened. I found out these things get stuck if not used often. I was lucky mine finally started working, now I push the button each day I use my tractor (if not grappling). This does dead-head the hydraulics when there is no grapple attached, but it is too brief to harm your hydraulics.

2. When you remove the grapple from the FEL and disconnect the grapple hoses - take one end of one of the hoses coming from the grapple, and wrap a cloth around it and push the tip of the hydraulic connector against a hard metal object. This will release hydro fluid and pressure on the grapple cylinder (be careful - use a rag to catch the stream). If you don't release the pressure, when you try to reconnect the hoses, you will not be able to connect them because thermal expansion will cause super high pressure. Be sure to do this when the grapple is safely parked on the ground.

Another tip to relieve any hydraulic pressure on the 3rd SCV. Similar to the way you move the joystick with the engine off to release pressure from the loader lines before detaching them, turn on the switch so you have power to the 3rd SCV solenoid then operate the button on the joystick, both up and down, and that relieves the pressure on those lines before detaching whatever is connected to the 3rd SCV.

 

Just keep a can of carburetor cleaner on hand. Spray the connectors with the carb cleaner before you connect them and you will be fine. The hose connectors from the grapple are male and can be easily wiped clean with a rag, but the female connectors on the tractor fel get filthy. The carb cleaner works well.

 

I just ordered a set of Kenny's dust caps to protect them both.

 

Which item comes with the joystick. Or is that a 3rd part. One part is what attaches to loader arms. The other is the scv that attaches to tractor. Is the joystick a separate part or does it come with the part that attaches to loader? Or does it come together since it’s called a 3rd function scv not just a scv? Best i can figure the grapple is $1350 and the parts to make it work are about $1250. So about $2600? Am I understanding right?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Which item comes with the joystick. Or is that a 3rd part. One part is what attaches to loader arms. The other is the scv that attaches to tractor. Is the joystick a separate part or does it come with the part that attaches to loader? Or does it come together since it’s called a 3rd function scv not just a scv? Best i can figure the grapple is $1350 and the parts to make it work are about $1250. So about $2600? Am I understanding right?

The 3rd SCV kit is everything attached to the tractor, which includes the joystick buttons, all the hydraulic lines, fittings, electric valves, and connectors down by the engine. The loader kit is the hydraulic lines, fittings, and connectors attached to the right loader arm so you can use any loader mounted implement with it. These two kits plus installation labor cost $1250. And yes, the AV20F grapple is $1350.

Is that possible with your grapple?? Usually implements mike this have two male connections and the tractor has two female.

You're correct. IDK why I was thinking they were alternate.

 

They're both female on the tractor. It's just not lined up next to each other.

 

Your picture says different, sorry.

 

When operating can you operate 2 functions at once? Clamp and curl or unclamp and raise loader? You have by far the best setup I’ve seen on a compact tractor to date. When I bought my 2025R last year my only option was a diverter that you had to flip a switch to use and was a mess of hoses. So I didn’t order it at the time hoping something like this would become available. I’m going to have to count my pennies and go see my dealer ASAP and see if I can get your setup. Thanks for all the pics and postings.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I haven't actually disconnected it since I've been using the grapple. I thought it was alternate, so you could connect the ends together from some video I remember watching. Then someone else said they're both female, and I looked at the picture quickly and it appeared to be the case. Now looking at the picture closer, I see they are indeed alternate.

 

This topic has been discussed about 6 months ago. This other thread has more details and highly encourage to read this thread below. There is issues if you have an older 1025R, or independent Lift mower deck. Some people have installed this kit themselves even thought it states dealer install.
https://www.greentractortalk.com/forums/sub-compact-utility-tractors-scut/183344-3rd-true-mid-hydraulics-2018-1025r.html


I am basically looking for all of the kit #'s required. If someone had this installed by dealer does it list all of the kit #'s on your paperwork?

This is what I posted in the other thread but have gotten no response.
I have read the tread completely. I currently have a 1025R built after the July 14 2017, with a 260B backhoe and 120R loader. I do not have the "Independent Lift" mower deck option. I had some confusion about which parts to buy to get the 3rd mid hydraulic selective control valve option. It looks like from John Deere Build Your Own website that the BLV11143 (3rd Function SCV) will work with the 260B backhoe since the tractor would be using the new Power Beyond Kit (BLV11216). It also looks like you would need the BXX10268 (loader hose kit) to control a grapple or 4 in 1 bucket on the loader.

So it seems like the kits that I would need is:
BLV11143
BXX10268

Is there any other parts or kits that I would be missing. I noticed a statement that discuss a compatibility matrix and Ordering Guide for additional parts that maybe needed. Does anyone know where this is located on John Deere website, I could not find it, and makes me wondering if I am missing other parts then what I listed above?

 

It seems that when I operate the loader's dump/curl, the flow to the third SCV stops, or at least mostly stops. So if I push the button at the same time as I'm even slowly curling back or dumping, the 3rd function gets no flow. Is this by design? I'm just not picturing how that would happen. I can see both movements operating slowly since it's not like the hydraulic pump got bigger. But the 3rd SCV seems to stop completely with even a small amount of dump/curl stick. If I'm curled all the way back, and hold the stick curling back so it's going into relief, the 3rd SCV still does not operate. So it's clearly not just a matter of the flow being shared.

This isn't a big problem. I wasn't expect all functions to operate at the same time perfectly with no change in pump capacity. Just wondering if it's expected by design or something's in the wrong spot.

 

Tough to say exactly if it’s normal or not since these kits are relatively new, but I suspect it is.

Hydraulics is much like electricity in this regard, the fluid will take the path of least resistance, so when you’re trying to do two functions at one time, you have two valves open or in parallel with each other-the Circuit with the less resistance will move first. Also, since they are all in series it depends on which one is plumbed in first or second.

I still believe that diverters are the best option for small machines. The ONLY thing the JD kit has going for it IMHO is the control handle. The added cost and complexity is not worth it on my opinion.

 

.....or when to do the first oil change. We all agree on that one.:hide:

 

Good one.

John Deere don’t even know this one!

 

Biggest issue and downfall of the setup like the OP's its either on or off.
No feathering of the speed.
On my diverter operated grapple I can control how fast/slow the grapple operates just like how fast I can control the curl function.

To me the switch/joystick seems ridiculously large.
Maybe I'm just used to the small and unobtrusive push button from Artillian.

For fairness here are pictures of my setup.

Not pretty but on the stuff that matters, function, its all there.

The diverter setup came originally from my old 4610, so don't blame Artillian if you think the hoses are not kosher.

I've got probably over 125 hrs this year alone on my grapple moving primarily logs but pulling/moving rocks too.

I'd like to try a setup like OP's. If there is no speed adjustment I don't care about the rest of it, that alone screws up the ease of function.

 

To me the switch/joystick seems ridiculously large.
Maybe I'm just used to the small and unobtrusive push button from Artillian.

For fairness here are pictures of my setup.

Not pretty but on the stuff that matters, function, its all there.

The diverter setup came originally from my old 4610, so don't blame Artillian if you think the hoses are not kosher.

I've got probably over 125 hrs this year alone on my grapple moving primarily logs but pulling/moving rocks too.

I'd like to try a setup like OP's. If there is no speed adjustment I don't care about the rest of it, that alone screws up the ease of function.

View attachment 705774

View attachment 705776

The joystick on the JD solution is very, very comfortable. Rest your hand on the top of the joystick and the switch for the third function is right there for you to use and becomes 2nd nature quickly. The speed of the grapple opening and closing hasn't been an issue to me, and this is not my first rodeo with grapples. The whole solution work very well.

 

The loader stick with the buttons is actually VERY comfortable in my hand. I really like it. It's far more comfortable than what I had before on my old 1026R. I would buy that handle even if I didn't need the buttons!

As for the on/off without feathering, yes that is true. But in all the videos and talk about grapples, I've never actually seen a need for variable feathering the flow to a grapple clamp. You're opening, or you're closing. I ordered a flow restrictor and a set of quick connects from from Kenny so it can go slower when I use it for a snow plow angle or hydraulic top link. But in none of my three use cases would I need to change the speed on the fly.

If you're doing a 4-in-1 bucket, I can see it being more useful to vary the rate. But a restrictor may also do the trick just fine for that too. Not in my use cases so I wasn't worried.

 

As for the on/off without feathering, yes that is true. But in all the videos and talk about grapples, I've never actually seen a need for variable feathering the flow to a grapple clamp. You're opening, or you're closing. I ordered a flow restrictor and a set of quick connects from from Kenny so it can go slower when I use it for a snow plow angle or hydraulic top link. But in none of my three use cases would I need to change the speed on the fly.

If you're doing a 4-in-1 bucket, I can see it being more useful to vary the rate. But a restrictor may also do the trick just fine for that too. Not in my use cases so I wasn't worried.

Just like the curl and up and down functions there is a benefit to having speed control for opening/closing a grapple.

I use my grapple to move logs and rocks around ALOT.
some of the things you need to do are pick up and flip logs side to side or turn them 90 degrees. These involve lifting and holding or releasing the log as you move forward or back so as to rotate the log.
If you release too fast or slow you have a much harder time.

Stacking logs is easier when you can slowly release a log on the pile. If can see slight movements in the pile as you do it slowly so that you can stop before the pile decides to come rolling down.

Also when picking up a bunch of logs at one time, as you curl the load around the logs shift slightly making the top log loose, its helpful to grab the load very fast when this happens so you don't have to pick them up a second time.

Yes, you can do it without the speed adjustment, but like all things a little finesse makes some things possible at times.


I would imagine the same thing with all other uses of hydraulics. Watch an experienced operator run heavy equipment, they make things look easy. If all they had was on/off some of the stuff they do would look clumsy. Other moves may not be possible.

 

This all is quite interesting and am considering the BLV11143 for my 1025r...however I already have a grapple and setup for remote on my JD4400. Here are pics how I use the grapple. Have the line...remotes, lever and when I install grapple I just run the lines to the rear of the tractor. I feel I could do the same by just running the lines to the side outlets. However I wonder what weight grapple you can use on the 1025r without giving up all your lifting power. My current grapple may be too heavy. Basically I really don't need but it would be nice to have. Any ideals on grapple weight.

 

A grapple weighs more than a bucket.
Buckets around 100lbs and a grapple around 250lbs. Depending upon bucket and grapple of course.
Thing is what else you going to use for lifting/grabbing something?
Forks? they weigh as much as a grapple.

One thing most don't realize is you can lift more weight with a grapple than you can with forks. I'll bet its at least equivalent to a bucket too even tho the grapple weighs 150 lbs more than the bucket.

I went from a grapple on my 4610 and put it on a 2720. I can lift over 1000lbs easily. Have lifted one Maple log that calculated out to a little over 1200lbs.
I may not be able to lift with the boom on real heavy load but I can lift using the curl. Start off with the curl all the way down, grab the load, and curl it up. Logs is easy, may not work so well with rocks as they tend to stick out from the grapple more than a log does. Can't do that with forks or a bucket.

What do use the grapple for? Closer the load is to the grapple the better.

 

Klunder: that 4400 has an updated pump and it will flat do some lifting....I know my 1025r has probably 30-40% less lift or capacity....personally I wouldn't put all the plumbing on the loader would just run my lines to the grapple...I think doing all those lines would be a waist of time and money but with the outlets one could do a lot of things like having a rear cylinder...etc...

 

Random question to this old thread. I have a 1023E with the power beyond kit for my 260 Backhoe. I have a buddy who is getting ready to pull the trigger on a new 2025R and they are going to install the 3rd scv for him and give him a deal on an AV20F in lieu of a mowing deck.

Now I already have pallet forks,a rotary cutter and an autocoonect mower and our garages our just a few miles apart. Bottom line we can share attachments fairly easily. So I am interested in getting set up to borrow his grapple

At the beginning of this post someone mentioned that a 3rd scv wasn't possible on the 1023Es if they had the power beyond kit already.

Is this true? If so it's not an issue for me as I prefer the cost savings of a diverter anyways. Just was wondering if that was in fact the only option for me if I ever want to set up my machine to borrow his grapple

 

At the beginning of this post someone mentioned that a 3rd scv wasn't possible on the 1023Es if they had the power beyond kit already.

I am pretty sure that is still the case, if so the Artillian Diverter to operate the grapple is the best choice.

 

Here is the pricing on the grapple I purchased with my 1023E last month. The SCV is independent of any other hydraulics. I've seen a few installations and they are all the same. Same joystick, same cable routing, etc.. It works great and I'm very glad I chose a 100% JD solution. Same grapple and same controller as above. $2400 total, installed and ready to go.

 

TBH I would never recommend someone install the JD 3rd SCV kit themselves as an add-on. It is a massive job requiring significant tear down and reassembly. I got it because it was rolled into the financing and installed at the dealer's shop by someone else using someone else's time and money. If you're adding a third function yourself as an add-on, I would highly recommend an aftermarket diverter kit. Ken has a DIY kit, and Artillian has a complete kit too. Both are top notch.

 

Just a quick question. Has anyone had intermittent issues with the grapple clamp? I have the Frontier AF20F and the JD third function kit installed. It's a NICE package and looks very clean (other than the gray wring to the 3rd function button on the joystick...but I digress...). Anyway about an hour into using the tractor the grapple clamp would stop working, I think the failures were only when opening (but I could be wrong). In the next 90 minutes there were probably 5 failures. Not end of the world, but still a little troubling, especially for a brand new tractor.

There were some other issues discovered with the tractor during this shakedown session (like missing a seat bolt) and it's already going back to the shop once the MMM deck arrives. Couldn't wait for it, so once it comes in, back it goes.

Reading through the thread, yes, I believe my 3rd function connections at the grapple are 1m 1f. I had the same questions about joining them when disconnecting the grapple. And yes, I had it all installed at the shop as the cost for the grapple and 3rd function kit were included in the purchase price.

On a side note, This is a 1025R. In response to some of the earlier comments, is it possible to install a bigger hydraulic pump if flow rates are challenged by the addition of the 3rd function valve.

I've already let the dealer know about the intermittent issues with the grapple but I'm still wondering if anyone else has seen it on their machine too.

Thanks,
Brian

 

In response to some of the earlier comments, is it possible to install a bigger hydraulic pump if flow rates are challenged by the addition of the 3rd function valve.

Not really.